Edouard Bastarache Inc. on sun 5 nov 06
Hello Vince,
maybe we should also eliminate "clay" because
1 gram of earth can contain up to 25 billions
micro-organisms (4 times the earth's human
population). GRIN
It may cause opportunistic infections.
GRIN
"So, that leaves us with water, calcium carbonate,
magnesium carbonate, strontium carbonate, and a
few other materials. Hmmmm,
what shall we make?
Vince"
Edouard Bastarache
Le Français Volant
The Flying Frenchman
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.pshcanada.com/Toxicology.htm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
www.thepottersshop.blogspot.com
Vince Pitelka on sun 5 nov 06
This subject comes up routinely, and it is a good thing, because it is
imperative that we eliminate all potentially toxic materials from the glaze
lab. Just the implication that something might be toxic is certainly enough
of a reason to scream in terror and raise the alarm. Barium, manganese,
copper, and chrome are all suspect, so we must immediately do away with all
of them. Cobalt was once used in some kind of bomb, so it must be dangerous
in the glaze lab, and we should get rid of it too. Iron in excessive
amounts is toxic, so iron has to go. Silica causes silicosis, so all
materials containing silica must be eliminated - that would include
feldspar, talc, wollastonite, Cornwall stone, nepheline syenite, sand, grog,
and of course clay. So, that leaves us with water, calcium carbonate,
magnesium carbonate, strontium carbonate, and a few other materials. Hmmmm,
what shall we make?
My point is that almost anything improperly used could be toxic. Remember
the big hydrogen monoxide scare a few years back? So, what's the
responsible course of action? To educate people about safe storage and use
of materials and safe glaze practice, of course. The same is true in every
field of professional endeavor. You don't eliminate all the toxic
materials, you learn to use them wisely and safely.
There are a whole lot of things people can do to hurt themselves if they
behave like idiots, and there is nothing we can do to prevent that. People
need to be responsible for their own behavior, and it is up to educators and
other wise professionals to provide information to help them be responsible.
That's the best we can do.
Removing barium carbonate and manganese from the glaze lab is akin to
removing dodgeball and tag from the school playground. It is an unnecessary
and counterproductive overreaction.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
claybair on mon 6 nov 06
Not to freak y-all out but talc was frequently contaminated with asbestos
or asbestos like fibers.. Gads I remember dust clouds of the stuff!
See:
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_6x_Talcum_Powder_and_Cancer.
asp?sitearea=
http://www.preventcancer.com/press/petitions/nov17_94.htm
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
Tucson, AZ
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From:June MacDonald
Hi - all the baby powder that I have seen in the last seven years (since the
grandchildren) seems to be made of cornstarch these days. Guess they
realized that when the baby got into the powder and spilled it all over the
place that cornstarch was a safer thing to use than the old talcum powder
(talc)that was used for my babies 40 years ago.
June
----- Original Message ----
From: Cindy Gatto
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Monday, November 6, 2006 5:17:48 PM
Subject: Re: Concern with toxic materials
. But the one that I am really curious
about is Talc.That is baby powder. That's all baby powder is talc and
fragrance. Is it different talc then what we use? Is it treated somehow?
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.29/520 - Release Date: 11/6/2006
Lee Love on mon 6 nov 06
On 11/6/06, Edouard Bastarache Inc. wrote:
> Hello Vince,
>
> maybe we should also eliminate "clay" because
You guy learned debating from the NRA.
Asking people to be aware of risk hazards has nothing to do with
banning materials.
A little common sense can prevent this kind of logical mistake. ;^)
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Kathi LeSueur on mon 6 nov 06
Vince Pitelka wrote:
> This subject comes up routinely, and it is a good thing, because it is
> imperative that we eliminate all potentially toxic materials from the
> glaze
> lab. Just the implication that something might be toxic is certainly
> enough
> of a reason to scream in terror and raise the alarm. ......
>
> My point is that almost anything improperly used could be toxic.......
> So, what's the
> responsible course of action? To educate people about safe storage
> and use
> of materials and safe glaze practice, of course. The same is true in
> every
> field of professional endeavor. You don't eliminate all the toxic
> materials, you learn to use them wisely and safely.>>>>>
Thanks for such a thoughtful post. I often think potters are their own
worst enemies. I'm often appalled at the conditions in many potter's
studios. Just walking through them creates clouds of dust. If any
cleaning of the floor is done it's with a broom rather than wet mop.
Chemicals are stored in open bags and residue from them is all over
rather than in sealed containers . No ventilation over kilns and kilns
in the same room the potter is working in.
My most unfavorite thing to do is clean the studio. But, it's a
necessity. It needs to be done daily. Your life depends on it.
Kathi
>
>
Richard Aerni on mon 6 nov 06
Vince,
I read your post with interest, but was very concerned that you had left
good ole H2O out of your list of hazardous materials in your first
paragraph. Of course, being the responsible educator that you are, you did
include it in paragraph two.
I will make a bold statement here, and that is that water has been
responsible for more deaths than all of the other hazardous ingredients put
together (though of course, iron weapons have certainly caused their share).
But seriously, I've met more people who get hysterical over all of the glaze
hazards in the lab, without applying a modicum of common sense. Do some
thinking, do some research, don't join in the hysteria without using your
noggin. More common sense and independent thought is needed not only in the
pottery studio, but in our political discourse as well...there, I've said it!
Best wishes,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY...just back from a wonderful stay at Mark and Nona's place on
Lookout Mountain...man, how can a place get any more beautiful?
Randall Moody on mon 6 nov 06
It seems to me that Vince is being the voice of reason in this debate. He
seems to be advocating reason and logic rather than the knee-jerk
reactionary "all barium baaaad!! no use barium!" mentality of some potters.
Nice, yet sad little attempt at injecting politics in a non-political topic.
...again.
On 11/6/06, Lee Love wrote:
>
> On 11/6/06, Edouard Bastarache Inc. wrote:
> > Hello Vince,
> >
> > maybe we should also eliminate "clay" because
>
> You guy learned debating from the NRA.
>
> Asking people to be aware of risk hazards has nothing to do with
> banning materials.
>
> A little common sense can prevent this kind of logical mistake. ;^)
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan
> http://potters.blogspot.com/
> "Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
> "When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Vince Pitelka on mon 6 nov 06
Richard Aerni wrote:
> I read your post with interest, but was very concerned that you had left
> good ole H2O out of your list of hazardous materials in your first
> paragraph. Of course, being the responsible educator that you are, you
> did
> include it in paragraph two.
> I will make a bold statement here, and that is that water has been
> responsible for more deaths than all of the other hazardous ingredients
> put
> together . . . "
Richard -
Being a responsible educator, I do realize the terrible dangers of hydrogen
monoxide, but if I eliminate that from the clay studio, things would just
become completely hopeless. Now that we have eliminated clay, due to the
silica content, I am trying to figure out how we can achieve a plastic,
workable substance with water and whiting.
Seriously, yes, it just takes a modicum of common sense and consistent
attention to safety in order to use all of those materials safely. Toxic
scare tactics pop up now and then in academia, and it is usually just the
efforts of some lower level bureaucrat to build a dynasty of fear. I do not
remember what university this occured at, but there really was an occasion
when the "environmental safety inspectors" attempted to ban clay from the
clay studio because the boxes included a warning about inhallation risk.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Richard Aerni on mon 6 nov 06
On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 15:25:39 -0600, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>
>Seriously, yes, it just takes a modicum of common sense and consistent
>attention to safety in order to use all of those materials safely. Toxic
>scare tactics pop up now and then in academia, and it is usually just the
>efforts of some lower level bureaucrat to build a dynasty of fear. I do not
>remember what university this occured at, but there really was an occasion
>when the "environmental safety inspectors" attempted to ban clay from the
>clay studio because the boxes included a warning about inhallation risk.
>- Vince
Vince,
Well, I'm sure it has occurred at any number of schools, but I was once the
beneficiary of an overzealous safety compliance officer at a local community
college. He had decided to go through the ceramics department with the aim
of ridding it of all toxic materials so as to limit the college's liability.
As I was spending some time with him one day, he remarked on how many
hazardous materials he had found, and how it would bust his annual budget to
get the hazmat trash haulers to cart it all away. I inquired about which
materials he'd found that were so dangerous..."talc, silica, dolomite,
copper, barium" etc, etc, he went on. He'd read the MSDS warning labels and
impounded them all. I said that I was familiar with the safe disposal of
the materials and would be glad to save the college money. So the next
weekend, I loaded up my van with all of the offensive materials, where they
were put to good use in my own studio.
I'm still amazed that a smart guy would be so clueless...
Best wishes,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on mon 6 nov 06
Hello Vince,
these "environmental safety inspectors" needed to
go back to school !!!
I think we should all thank Vince for his recent
posts on toxicicity;
well structured texts, and he was very patient all
the time...
Later,
Edouard Bastarache
Le Français Volant
The Flying Frenchman
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.pshcanada.com/Toxicology.htm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
www.thepottersshop.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
To:
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Concern with toxic materials
> Richard Aerni wrote:
>> I read your post with interest, but was very
>> concerned that you had left
>> good ole H2O out of your list of hazardous
>> materials in your first
>> paragraph. Of course, being the responsible
>> educator that you are, you
>> did
>> include it in paragraph two.
>> I will make a bold statement here, and that is
>> that water has been
>> responsible for more deaths than all of the
>> other hazardous ingredients
>> put
>> together . . . "
>
> Richard -
> Being a responsible educator, I do realize the
> terrible dangers of hydrogen
> monoxide, but if I eliminate that from the clay
> studio, things would just
> become completely hopeless. Now that we have
> eliminated clay, due to the
> silica content, I am trying to figure out how we
> can achieve a plastic,
> workable substance with water and whiting.
>
> Seriously, yes, it just takes a modicum of
> common sense and consistent
> attention to safety in order to use all of those
> materials safely. Toxic
> scare tactics pop up now and then in academia,
> and it is usually just the
> efforts of some lower level bureaucrat to build
> a dynasty of fear. I do not
> remember what university this occured at, but
> there really was an occasion
> when the "environmental safety inspectors"
> attempted to ban clay from the
> clay studio because the boxes included a warning
> about inhallation risk.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee
> Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or
> change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Cindy Gatto on mon 6 nov 06
There has been something that I have always been curious about and this
seems like a good time to ask. Almost all of the chemicals we use in clay can be
found in any health food store. I am assuming there are different grades ie;
industrial grade. cosmetic grade, etc. But the one that I am really curious
about is Talc.That is baby powder. That's all baby powder is talc and
fragrance. Is it different talc then what we use? Is it treated somehow?
Cindy Gatto & Mark Petrin
The Mudpit
228 Manhattan Ave
Brooklyn, NY 11206
718-218-9424
_www.mudpitnyc.com_ (http://www.mudpitnyc.com/)
mudpitnyc@aol.com
June MacDonald on mon 6 nov 06
=0AHi - all the baby powder that I have seen in the last seven years (since=
the grandchildren) seems to be made of cornstarch these days. Guess they =
realized that when the baby got into the powder and spilled it all over the=
place that cornstarch was a safer thing to use than the old talcum powder =
(talc)that was used for my babies 40 years ago.=0A=0AJune=0A----- Original =
Message ----=0AFrom: Cindy Gatto =0ATo: CLAYART@LSV.CERA=
MICS.ORG=0ASent: Monday, November 6, 2006 5:17:48 PM=0ASubject: Re: Concern=
with toxic materials=0A=0A. But the one that I am really curious=0Aabout i=
s Talc.That is baby powder. That's all baby powder is talc and=0Afragrance.=
Is it different talc then what we use? Is it treated somehow?=0A=0A=0A___=
___________________________________________________________________________=
=0ASend postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org=0A=0AYou may look at the archi=
ves for the list or change your subscription=0Asettings from http://www.cer=
amics.org/clayart/=0A=0AModerator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be re=
ached at melpots@pclink.com.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Jon Pacini on wed 8 nov 06
Greetings All --- Gayle wrote--
"Not to freak y-all out but talc was frequently contaminated with asbestos
or asbestos like fibers.. Gads I remember dust clouds of the stuff!"
For anyone who is not familar with this issue, some talcs have fiberous
stuctures not unlike asbestos, but do not contain asbestos per se.
Tremolitic Talcs are of this fiberous nature. To the best of my knoweldge
none are being mined for use in ceramics, if at all.
Best regards,
Jon Pacini
Clay Manager
Laguna Clay Co
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