Bill and Sandy Sanchez on wed 8 nov 06
Hello Clay Artists:
Thanks for all the great info from us long time lurkers and first time
posters.
Probably a stupid question but we have been trying to sell a smaller 818p
Skutt kiln that we don't seem able to shake and are wondering if we could
a) use it as is for raku firing or b) convert it to propane for raku
firing. We have not seen this done but would it be possible to use the
elements to take it up to temperature, open the lid and pull out the raku
wares? If not possible or just a stupid idea is there a kit of some kind
or ideas on converting it to propane and setting up a weighted pully
system to fire it to raku temps?
Thanks and please know how much we appreciate all of the info and
interesting discussion.
Craig Clark on thu 9 nov 06
This is the first time I have ever had to disagree with anything
that Snail has posted. She is indeed wise. However, in the case of using
an electric kiln for raku I must state what she says has not been my
experience. The heat blast is indeed intense, more so than a side
loading kiln, but that is the end of the disadvantages from my
perspective. I always wear a fire jacket, elbow length Kevlar gloves, a
full length face shield of the polycarbonate varitey used in foundaries,
heavy loose jeans, and leather steel toed boots for safety.
While I don't raku thousands of pots annually I do raku many
hundreds. They range in size from my little 4 inch bowls all the way up
to twenty inch diameter platters and bowls and twenty two inch tall
bottles. The forms vary from very classical shapes to altered thrown
pieces, slab constructions, etc.....you name it, I've probably tried to
Raku it.My glazes are a clear crackle (nice bright white on a white
body), yellow crackle, green/copper crackle, Pipenburs Alligator as well
as refractory slip.
The intial firing up to temperature does indeed take much longer
than a conventional gas fired kiln. But after that, I can pretty much
cycle in twenty minute rounds all day long. I certainly don't set any
records but there have been days where I have fired 80 or more pots when
there were a bunch of smaller ones. If I'm firing the bigger pots, I
need to let the kiln cool more and there is of course a longer cycle,
usually about 45 minutes to an hour. But this doesn't bother me a bit.
As to the number of pots that I put in the kiln that depends upon
the size of the pots. The most that I will do in any one round with the
smallest pieces is 7 of them. If there is a larger bowl or bottle I will
put some smaller pots down around the form as room permits. I have been
using a Skutt 1027 that I have treated with ITC 100.
Probably the worst aspect, besides the intense heat shooting
straight up that will indeed burn you if you are not properly protected,
is the wear and tear on the elements. I got 7 years out of the first
set, and have a new set that is cruising along strong that I treated
with ITC which are showing very little wear after three years. I can't
say how long they will last.
One more word on the heat. It is the face shield, and did I mention
a good bandana to keep the hair back, that is of critical importance.
Don't go cheap on a face shield, regardless of what type of Raku you may
be planning on doing. Either get your shield from Mark Ward, he sells
gloves and everything else for the Raku enthusiast, not to mention his
encyclopedic knowledge of all things relating to firing and burners. Or,
find the nearest Foundary Supply Store near you and they will have the
face protection that will keep you from burning your face. The toughest
part for me was figuring out that I needed a longer shield that dropped
down below my chin. I kept heating it up and it took me awhile to figure
things out. If money isn't really an issue for you, just splerge and get
yourself one of those fancy head coverings that go with a flame jacket.
You can get pants as well if you really want to look like an extra from
an old science fiction movie, but you will not burn yourself. Atleast
not until you take things off and get too close to a hot can or pot.
Here is the link to Mark Wards bidness.......
http://www.wardburner.com/
One more thing about safety, if you decide to use an electric kiln
to fire, please be certain to turn the power to the kiln off before
reaching inside. If you don't, you could very well discover what 220
feels like, and it ain't nice.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 St
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
Snail Scott wrote:
> At 09:50 PM 11/8/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> ...would it be possible to use the
>> elements to take it up to temperature, open the lid and pull out the raku
>> wares?
>>
>
>
> This does work. The reason it's not done
> more often is twofold.
>
> One: the electrical elements heat much more
> slowly than a gas burner, so you cannot fire
> multiple loads in an afternoon; maybe two a
> day, tops.
>
> Two: unloading from the top puts you right
> in the path of the rising heat, so it's
> somewhat more uncomfortable. Also, doing
> more than one shelf of work at a time is
> difficult, since you'd have to reach in
> and remove a hot shelf to get at the next
> level. You don't want to do really large
> loads, since it's hard to unload lots of
> stuff fast enough, but depending on your
> forms, it might be an issue.
>
> A 'top-hat' style hoist could eliminate
> the top-loading-related issues, but would
> not shorten the turn-around time. That
> would require adding a gas burner.
>
> For an occasional piece, a stock electric
> kiln can work just fine, but for production,
> a gas kiln - either retrofitted from
> electric or purpose-built, preferably with
> side-unloading capability - will be more
> efficient.
>
> -Snail
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Arnold Howard on thu 9 nov 06
From: "Bill and Sandy Sanchez"
we have been trying to sell a smaller 818p
> Skutt kiln that we don't seem able to shake and are
> wondering if we could
> a) use it as is for raku firing
-----------
I think that would be an excellent raku kiln as is. You
should turn off the power before reaching into the kiln to
pull out the pieces.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Snail Scott on thu 9 nov 06
At 09:50 PM 11/8/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>...would it be possible to use the
>elements to take it up to temperature, open the lid and pull out the raku
>wares?
This does work. The reason it's not done
more often is twofold.
One: the electrical elements heat much more
slowly than a gas burner, so you cannot fire
multiple loads in an afternoon; maybe two a
day, tops.
Two: unloading from the top puts you right
in the path of the rising heat, so it's
somewhat more uncomfortable. Also, doing
more than one shelf of work at a time is
difficult, since you'd have to reach in
and remove a hot shelf to get at the next
level. You don't want to do really large
loads, since it's hard to unload lots of
stuff fast enough, but depending on your
forms, it might be an issue.
A 'top-hat' style hoist could eliminate
the top-loading-related issues, but would
not shorten the turn-around time. That
would require adding a gas burner.
For an occasional piece, a stock electric
kiln can work just fine, but for production,
a gas kiln - either retrofitted from
electric or purpose-built, preferably with
side-unloading capability - will be more
efficient.
-Snail
Craig Clark on thu 9 nov 06
Bill, I use an electric kiln for raku firing all the time. Been
doing it for the past 10 years. It works great. If you want, you can
also convert your old electric to gas kiln. The only difficult part is
cutting a hole through the stainless for the burner port, but once that
is done it is a snap.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 St
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
Bill and Sandy Sanchez wrote:
> Hello Clay Artists:
>
> Thanks for all the great info from us long time lurkers and first time
> posters.
>
> Probably a stupid question but we have been trying to sell a smaller 818p
> Skutt kiln that we don't seem able to shake and are wondering if we could
> a) use it as is for raku firing or b) convert it to propane for raku
> firing. We have not seen this done but would it be possible to use the
> elements to take it up to temperature, open the lid and pull out the raku
> wares? If not possible or just a stupid idea is there a kit of some kind
> or ideas on converting it to propane and setting up a weighted pully
> system to fire it to raku temps?
>
> Thanks and please know how much we appreciate all of the info and
> interesting discussion.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Lee Love on fri 10 nov 06
I have tiny electric kiln that has a ware area the size of a half a
brick. I do raku guinomi/shotglasses. This little kiln hits
raku heat in an hour and reheats in about 20 minutes. Kinda fun.
I have been reducing in a plate sagger that I lay a couple sheets
of newspaper in. I put a ball of paper on the inside of the pot and
then cover with a bisqued bowl. Biggest problem has been overfiring.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Wally on fri 10 nov 06
Snail,
Fully agree to your analysis in regard of multiple firings and
efficiency for production work.
But one big advantage of an electric kiln is exactly the slower
increase of temperature, especially if firing large flat plates or
shallow bowls, which are allways a nightmare.....
The risk of cracks for these kind of objects is so much lower in an
electric kiln than in a faster propane kiln.
Contrary to popular belief, my experience is that the main reason for
cracking in raku, especially for flatware and joined platework, is the
very rapid rise in temperature, rather than the "temperature shock"
when pieces are removed from the kiln and tonged into reduction
containers, and the cooling process afterwards.
Using appropriate raku-clay and good construction makes most objects
survive, but some forms just need a slow build-up of heat to avoid
higher tensions than a clayobject can endure, if -say- temperature at
the rim is much higher than in the center.
Said that, I prefer to use my gasfired fibrekiln for my own work, the
directness of the process is so much more appealing....
Kind regards from Flanders.
Wally Asselberghs
Schoten, Belgium.
www.wallyasselberghs.be
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Snail Scott wrote:
>
> At 09:50 PM 11/8/2006 -0500, you wrote:
> >...would it be possible to use the
> >elements to take it up to temperature, open the lid and pull out
the raku
> >wares?
>
>
> This does work. The reason it's not done
> more often is twofold.
>
> One: the electrical elements heat much more
> slowly than a gas burner, so you cannot fire
> multiple loads in an afternoon; maybe two a
> day, tops.
>
> Two: unloading from the top puts you right
> in the path of the rising heat, so it's
> somewhat more uncomfortable. Also, doing
> more than one shelf of work at a time is
> difficult, since you'd have to reach in
> and remove a hot shelf to get at the next
> level. You don't want to do really large
> loads, since it's hard to unload lots of
> stuff fast enough, but depending on your
> forms, it might be an issue.
>
> A 'top-hat' style hoist could eliminate
> the top-loading-related issues, but would
> not shorten the turn-around time. That
> would require adding a gas burner.
>
> For an occasional piece, a stock electric
> kiln can work just fine, but for production,
> a gas kiln - either retrofitted from
> electric or purpose-built, preferably with
> side-unloading capability - will be more
> efficient.
>
> -Snail
>
>
___________________________________________________________________________=
___
> Send postings to clayart@...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@...
>
Lee Love on fri 10 nov 06
On 11/10/06, Craig Clark wrote:
> One more thing about safety, if you decide to use an electric kiln
> to fire, please be certain to turn the power to the kiln off before
> reaching inside. If you don't, you could very well discover what 220
> feels like, and it ain't nice.
As an added caution, I unplug my 100volt kiln before I open the
door. You might conc
sider flipping the breakers. Just to make sure the electricity is off.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Wally on fri 10 nov 06
Hi Bill and Sandy and others,
Further to Craig's posting, I also recently converted my 25-year old
small electric kiln to a raku kiln.
As the elements went bananas, and the complete electrical circuit was
halfway rusted away, it was too expensive to get it overhauled.
As I just couldn't say goodbye to it, decided to allow this ol'love a
second life.
Agree to Craig's message that making a hole into the stainless cover
is the trickiest part....
I just used an angle grinder wih a 4 inch cutting disc.
Two vertical cuts and two horizontal cuts made a blank square,
drilling a hole through the kiln (soft isolated brick) was a piece of
cake.
The whole conversion only took me about 90 minutes, and the newborn
kiln works just perfect.
During my US workshops, I have been working with many different
converted kilns from various brands and sizes, they all worked very
satisfactory, if the balance between burnerport and exhaust is OK.
So I often advise people who don't have the money to afford a
1000-2000 dollar new rakukiln, to shop around for an old electric unit.
Some Clay Suppliers, servicing kilns, often take back old kilns when
selling a new one, so they have "scrap kilns" available for free, or
for as low as 25 or 50 dollars.
Buy a weedburner, regulator and hose, and one can get started for less
than 100 bucks.
As far as my 2 neurocents worth.
Wally Asselberghs
Schoten, Belgium
www.wallyasselberghs.be
- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Craig Clark wrote:
>
> Bill, I use an electric kiln for raku firing all the time. Been
> doing it for the past 10 years. It works great. If you want, you can
> also convert your old electric to gas kiln. The only difficult part is
> cutting a hole through the stainless for the burner port, but once that
> is done it is a snap.
> Hope this helps
> Craig Dunn Clark
> 619 East 11 1/2 St
> Houston, Texas 77008
> (713)861-2083
> mudman@...
>
> Bill and Sandy Sanchez wrote:
> > Hello Clay Artists:
> >
> > Thanks for all the great info from us long time lurkers and first time
> > posters.
> >
> > Probably a stupid question but we have been trying to sell a
smaller 818p
> > Skutt kiln that we don't seem able to shake and are wondering if
we could
> > a) use it as is for raku firing or b) convert it to propane for raku
> > firing. We have not seen this done but would it be possible to
use the
> > elements to take it up to temperature, open the lid and pull out
the raku
> > wares? If not possible or just a stupid idea is there a kit of
some kind
> > or ideas on converting it to propane and setting up a weighted pully
> > system to fire it to raku temps?
> >
> > Thanks and please know how much we appreciate all of the info and
> > interesting discussion.
> >
> >
___________________________________________________________________________=
___
> > Send postings to clayart@...
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@...
> >
> >
>
>
___________________________________________________________________________=
___
> Send postings to clayart@...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@...
>
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