primalmommy on thu 16 nov 06
mel said of techno-junkies:
>are these the same folks that will be buying temmoku glazed
>pots in 10 years? or buying subtle celedons?
Or buying pottery at all? I have given this some serious thought. I am
investing two years of my life and thousands of dollars in a degree
program. This will produce, if all goes well, a middle aged woman who
can make some pots. Some days I can't really picture where the big
payoff comes in. (Most days I know it's the journey, not the
destination, that drives this thing and makes it worthwhile.)
I have come up with a few reasons to be hopeful about the future of
handmade things, and while they may be thin straws, I am holding onto
them with both hands.
1.) Postmodernism. Much of what I'm seeing on the contemporary art scene
is being produced for, and by, a smaller and smaller circle of the
initiated. Some of it rocks me, but would leave most of my neighbors
scratching their heads. Some of it just leaves me bewildered. We sat in
the last seminar class watching the movie of the guy who climbs around
art galleries naked, squirting vaseline into his orifices, and then the
prof pointed out how many millions of dollars in grants the man gets. I
thought Patrick (my fellow MFA and full time work study, on Ramen noodle
budget) was going to start pounding his forehead on the desk in despair.
I refuse to believe that art is the realm of the elite few who share an
inside perspective, and the rest are mass-marketing-driven sheep, happy
with styrofoam starbucks cups and plastic gadgetry. I think there is a
lot of middle ground, and most consumers are not ignorant people.
2.) Backlash. Think of how much plastic you touch in a day. Start with
keyboards, mouse. Think how little time anyone has, any more, to stop
and do just one thing at a time. Our senses are starved, our systems are
keyed up, our stress levels high, and our comforts few and far between.
My friend in the Red Cross was taught that in any disaster, no matter
how trivial this seems, you need to make coffee. People are instantly
calmed by holding something warm in their hands, and sipping. I've
advanced my theories before about how the need to hold round warmth and
drink milky comfort is really the only program human infants are born
with.
At the same time, I know sensory types who can barely bring themselves
to touch styrofoam. If so much coffee drinking didn't happen in the damn
car, clay might have a fighting chance.
3.) Eco-warriors. I bring my own favorite cup, wrapped in a dish towel
in my book bag, to any gathering likely to have styro cups for coffee.
It's about the ritual, mostly, anyway, especially for we decaf drinkers.
"Buy Local" has become a battle cry for many, and it goes for local
produce, meats, eggs, honey, and handmade crafts as well. Long live the
farmer's market! When I was at the museum in Chicago, they were
advertising a day when all their meals would be made from local
products.
4.) Foodies. This is a big one. The thing that is missing from our
everyday habits somehow pops up elsewhere. A generation raised on
microwaved and pre-prepared food, where nobody sits down anymore for
family meals, gathers around the TV to watch people cook. Iron Chef,
Rachel Ray, Martha Stewart -- cooking has become a spectator sport, and
people who don't have time to do it on a regular basis, want to really
do hell out of it when they have the opportunity. And serve it in a
unique, artful way that complements their efforts. It's all about the
details, the plating, the feeling of mastery. While I don't see a lot of
dishes on the cooking shows my guys like that are interesting enough to
compete with the food, it at least means that the kitchen is not an
artifact, and the little plastic microwave trays are not the wave of the
future, necessarily. People who are skilled in their own way seem to
appreciate others with similar artisan qualities.
At the same time, shows like that fashion runway thing, home
repair/redecorating and a series of how-to channels would imply that a
good number of the people who are not at the gallery watching an artist
squirt vaseline into his orifices, are at least interested in watching
people with skills, doing complicated, useful, creative things well.
Martha Stewart, as much as she makes me twitch, at least raised the
stature of "homemaking" in the public eye, and raised the bar for
creativity and intentionality in daily tasks.
I think we are not meant to live this fast, this hurried, this
fragmented. Postmodern multiple centers/narratives are wearying,
transitive, tied to pop culture. We will adapt to the pace -- maybe it's
part of human evolution -- but any time things move forward too quickly,
they seem to cause nostalgia, or at least some symbolic attachments to
traditions lost in the shuffle.
In other words, the more high tech the world gets, the more people like
me -- (me, with no idea how the message gets into my tv set or a voice
through a cell phone, much less the workings of cyberspace that now
support all of life) -- folks like me need to hold onto the simple, the
hand made, at least symbolically. We try to own a piece of it, to have
some symbol of the romance of potter, skill, process, wheel, kiln, and
human hand. Look around yourself right now: how many items around you
were made by people you'll never meet, in countries you've never
visited, using technologies you'll never understand? The world is too
anonymous. The pendulum will swing back, I am sure of it. Even if it's
only in a symbolic way.
Meanwhile my bathtub reading is "COLOR: a natural history of the
palette" by Victoria Finlay. Like the spices that drove exploration,
commerce and conquest, the search for color has a fascinating history.
I have to wonder, though, what happens when we become saturated. The
miracle of a portrait painting meant people could see, for the first
time, the faces of ancestors long dead. Then came photography. is a
museum hung with paintings a different thing, now that we can google
those images, have instant access, print and save? What happens to
darkrooms in the age of digital? The 2D art world, judging by my
textbooks, seems to dominate art history, and if anything, THOSE media
seem to be teetering on the edge of irrelevance.
You will always need a bowl for your apples, though. And a cup for your
coffee, a vase for your flowers.
I am hoping for a new age of the artisan, where real people making real
stuff and doing it with skill will be celebrated and supported by our
culture.
And while I'm at it, I would like world peace. And a pony.
Yours
Kelly in Ohio, on a cold wet grey day.. but I can come up with light and
colors, with a click of the mouse, that rival the stained glass windows
at the Notre Dame. No boiling beetles, no grinding stones, just click
and pick a font. My printer can print it, too.
primalpotter.com
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primalmommy on fri 17 nov 06
Vince and Bruce, I have stood in front of paintings that made all the
hair stand up on my arms... I do understand that no reproduction will
ever replace that experience.
What I wonder is:
a) will the MTV/internet/flashed image overload generation make that
pilgrimage to stand there, if they can google it? Will young folks care
to find out the difference?
and 2) will anyone, ever, ever again care to take the lifetime to paint
work like that?
yours
Kelly in Ohio
(hey mel, go see Molly's mouse: http://www.primalmommy.com/blog.html )
primalpotter.com
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Bruce Girrell on fri 17 nov 06
Kelly wrote:
> is a museum hung with paintings a different thing, now that we can google
> those images, have instant access, print and save?
On a recent business trip I stopped off in Amsterdam as a half-way rest
point. It just so happened that the Rijksmuseum and Van Gogh museum were
having a Dutch Masters exhibit at the time that I was there.
I am familiar enough with various works of Rembrandt, et al and have seen
reproductions of their works many times. But it was not until I was standing
in front of those paintings, that I could appreciate the work and why these
artists are so highly regarded. The detail in the work and the use of light
by the artists simply cannot be appreciated by looking at a printed image or
screen image. The paintings seemed to glow with their own light.
Later, I journeyed to a small town about 45 minutes from Amsterdam to visit
an artist whose work I had seen on a previous visit to Amsterdam. The
artist's name is Tjalf Sparnaay. Sparnaay has taken the Dutch Masters' work
one step further, boosting the detail to the level of a photograph and still
using all of the lighting tricks. His paintings look as if there is more
light coming out of them than there is falling on them.
Please go to
http://www.tjalfsparnaay.nl/index_eng.html
to see some examples of his work. Click on Overview and then click any image
that looks interesting to see it at a larger size. Note the reflections and
transparency effects. Check out the cheese sandwich.
Again, the screen images are only a reasonable representation of what you
see on the actual canvas. The sandwich looks edible. The ketchup looks as
though it's right in front of you in a real bottle. The screen image look
plastic; the actual painting looks amazingly real.
So, yeah, a museum hung with paintings is a very different thing from those
easily googled images.
Bruce Girrell
Vince Pitelka on fri 17 nov 06
Bruce Girrell wrote:
> I am familiar enough with various works of Rembrandt, et al and have seen
> reproductions of their works many times. But it was not until I was
> standing
> in front of those paintings, that I could appreciate the work and why
> these
> artists are so highly regarded. The detail in the work and the use of
> light
> by the artists simply cannot be appreciated by looking at a printed image
> or
> screen image. The paintings seemed to glow with their own light.
I have to second what Bruce writes above. I had a seminal experience some
years ago at the Norton Simon museum in Pasadena. I had seen all the
classic Raphaels in the art history texts, but had never stood in front of
one of his paintings. In the Norton Simon was a classic Raphael madonna and
child. I walked past it several times, and then it caught my attention, and
I was under its spell. I couldn't get away from it. There was just an
inner energy that I latched onto. That never could have happened in an
image in a book or online. The access to images online is a great
information resource, but it will never be even a shadow of the experience
of seeing the work in person. The artist created the work standing right
there in front of the canvas, and we can only really receive the narrative
message standing right there in front of the canvas. Ultimately no other
means of delivery will suffice, other than as a hint or a reminder.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Lee Love on sat 18 nov 06
On 11/18/06, Bruce Girrell wrote:
> On a recent business trip I stopped off in Amsterdam as a half-way rest
> point. It just so happened that the Rijksmuseum and Van Gogh museum were
> having a Dutch Masters exhibit at the time that I was there.
>
> I am familiar enough with various works of Rembrandt, et al and have seen
> reproductions of their works many times. But it was not until I was standing
> in front of those paintings, that I could appreciate the work and why these
> artists are so highly regarded.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Lee Love on sat 18 nov 06
On 11/18/06, Bruce Girrell wrote:
>
> I am familiar enough with various works of Rembrandt, et al and have seen
> reproductions of their works many times.
I appreciated seeing Rembrandt's drawings for etchings at the
British museum this summer. I like seeing the drawings of painters
and print makers because they tell you more about the process the
artist followed than their "ultimate" work does. Much of the
enjoyment standing in front of the actual work is ritual and
sentimental: to stand in front of the actual paper Rembrandt touched
and worked on!
But too, the originals will never replace the reproductions.
Having seen these works in person, my photos of them (you can take
photos in the British Museum), bring back the original experience.
I can look at these anytime. I
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Linda - Pacifica on sat 18 nov 06
Me three! I was in tears at the Ufizzi in Florence, in awe in Italy period. Art History books, classes, slides - none could elicit quite the response that seeing them in person did. It's not just being able to see the painting details, the strokes, etc. They had a presence no less than people you might know who fill a room with their spirit.
Linda, needing more such experiences. Italy would be good, but San Francisco will have to do for now.
Taylor Hendrix on sat 18 nov 06
So, how many of us would know who the hell Rembrandt was or is or did
or does if it were not for those TV/Internet/Book immages and the
printed/spoken words associated with them? Ah, won't get it 'til
you've stood there? Now that's a horse of another color.
Three cheers for museum haunting, two cheers for pushing a button,
clicking a mouse, or cracking a book.
Taylor
Marta Matray on sat 18 nov 06
Taylor Hendrix wrote:
>So, how many of us would know who the hell Rembrandt was or is or did
>or does if it were not for those TV/Internet/Book immages and the
>printed/spoken words associated with them? Ah, won't get it 'til
>you've stood there? Now that's a horse of another color.
>
>Three cheers for museum haunting, two cheers for pushing a button,
>clicking a mouse, or cracking a book.
taylor,
what is the difference between: to see your favorite
master's work in a book or ceramics monthly,
AND/or to be able to hold it in your hands,
caress it gently and put it to your lips and drink from it???
of course you can kind of guess just seeing the picture
that its a great work, but until you have an intimate relationship
with it, you wont get the same colored goosebumps!
marta
Vince Pitelka on sat 18 nov 06
> a) will the MTV/internet/flashed image overload generation make that
> pilgrimage to stand there, if they can google it? Will young folks care
> to find out the difference?
Kelly -
I think that occasional members of the flash-image-overload generation will
inevitably find themselves standing in front of the real thing in the
"bricks and mortar" museums, and they will have an epiphany. Even their
jaded senses will be stunned and their minds will be humbled.
> and 2) will anyone, ever, ever again care to take the lifetime to paint
> work like that?
There will always be artists with the commitment (read: obsession; insanity;
delusion) to produce great works that stand the test of time. The guarantee
is in the sure supply of talented artists with the obsession, insanity, or
delusion. It's a sure thing. We can't say who they are right now, because
we cannot understand the context for comparison in our own time. But
there's a lot of amazing work being done today all over the world.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Lee Love on sun 19 nov 06
On 11/19/06, Marta Matray wrote:
> taylor,
> what is the difference between: to see your favorite
> master's work in a book or ceramics monthly,
> AND/or to be able to hold it in your hands,
> caress it gently and put it to your lips and drink from it???
What I find, for example, after having had tea from a Korean Ido
tea bowl, is that the images mean so much more to me. This is
important, because I can see many more photos of these tea bowls than
I will ever be able to actually touch them.
> of course you can kind of guess just seeing the picture
> that its a great work, but until you have an intimate relationship
> with it, you wont get the same colored goosebumps!
The is even a deeper step over touching your masters work, is
trying to make it yourself. I always recommend to connoisseurs,
that they take a class so they understand the work better.
Is using less intimate than making? Maybe. Is enjoying a
image of a thing less than using it? Maybe. Does each deeper
practice invalidate the more shallow one? Should you not look at
photos if you don't handle the real thing? Should you not use
objects if you don't make them? Should you not make obejcts if you
don't make your own tools and materials....? I don't think so.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Sean Burns on sun 19 nov 06
On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 16:43:25 -0500, Marta Matray
wrote:
>Taylor Hendrix wrote:
>
>>So, how many of us would know who the hell Rembrandt was or is or did
>>or does if it were not for those TV/Internet/Book immages and the
>>printed/spoken words associated with them? Ah, won't get it 'til
>>you've stood there? Now that's a horse of another color.
>>
>>Three cheers for museum haunting, two cheers for pushing a button,
>>clicking a mouse, or cracking a book.
>
Hi,
I have enjoyed following this thread and it resonates with me as an
artist and a teacher in the public schools. I had my first exposure to
Rembrandt in a grocery store of all places maybe 3rd grade or so. When I
was visiting some relatives in Pennsylvania a grocery store was doing a
giveaway of art prints- kind of weird considering the community- but I was
allowed by my grandmother to select The Man With The Golden Helmet by
Rembrandt- I dont know why I liked it but it was mine- it later went
missing- I suspect it was too spooky for my moms sense of decor but I
never forgot the print or the artist. Since that seed was planted I have
gone on to see many examples of Rembrandt in person- and have had many in
my hands in various museum print rooms. He is always introduced to my
students when I do my yearly intaglio unit. I have done several copies in
reverse of his prints to try and get his sense of line down- really hard
to do- he worked small and quickly in multiple states of impressions.
Taylor I think you are right on- any means possible to plant the seed via
print-book- internet- it doesnt matter. For the seed to really grow to
fruition takes a journey to the true source- teachers and confronting art
one on one is essential.
As an aside yesterday I was a participant in a gallery talk for
teachers that among other things included an overview of Chinese Pottery
forms from the Neolithic Period thru the Song Dynasty- who would of thunk
a Rembrandt print would have led someone to Asian Ceramics- a pretty long
twisty journey- and one I get to share with my point and click students
who believe it or not are interested.
Best,
Sean Burns
Williamsburg,Ma.
Snail Scott on sun 19 nov 06
At 07:15 PM 11/18/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>> a) will the MTV/internet/flashed image overload generation make that
>> pilgrimage to stand there, if they can google it? Will young folks care
>> to find out the difference?
Everything's got the same texture on an
LCD screen. In a book, too. I never really
'got' van Gogh until I saw one of his
paintings in person. It was a small,
undistinguished piece, but the texture
made such difference! I could begin to
exrapolate, and to magine similar textures
on all those doctors-office posters and
totebags and art-book illustrations.
The size is always the same, too: page-sized,
or screen-sized.
I took a lot of art history in college. I
took a course in medieval art with a
knowledegable and articulate professor,
in which we looked at images of 15th c.
paintings. All one after another, all
the same size - slide-on-the-screen size.
The 'Arnolfini Wedding' by van Eyck -
saw it in person - it's not five feet tall;
it really is about the size of a book
illustration. A very nifty diptych by
Dierck Bouts, same period - saw it in
person - 12 feet tall. The professor had
gone on at length about the tromp-o'oeil
painted-on 'wooden' Gothic frame. It ain't
painted, in person, it's carved wood -
open fretwork laid over the painted panel;
a whole different understanding of the
piece, and a greater sense of its prior
context - like a new window in its original
Gothic home.
Context is anothert thing that's utterly
lost in photographic reproduction. Even
then that context is discuyssed in text,
or shown in a long shot, many works are
part-and-pardel of their place, and have
a terribly truncated existence outside it.
The more peoples' understanding of artwork
is created by photographic images of it,
the greater will be the impact of its
physical presence.
Now imagine the impact of work you can
actually pick up and touch, as an
intended aspect of its purpose! Can
you say 'pottery?
-Snail
Lee Love on sun 19 nov 06
On 11/19/06, Taylor Hendrix wrote:
> Three cheers for museum haunting, two cheers for pushing a button,
> clicking a mouse, or cracking a book.
I agree with Taylor. The internet is not infringing upon art
appreciation. (would be lost and illiterate here in Japan, if it
weren't for the internet.) Our cultural values are responsible for
kids not finding the humanities.
If the humanities are cut from school programs, and our kids
are just taught to be good employees and consumers, what need with
they have for art and culture?
You know a culture by what it spends its month on.
You should see how they do art and craft on Japanese T.V. Last
night, we stumbled across a program about Gaudi. They frequently do
dramas and mysteries that include potters as main characters.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Sheryl McMonigal on mon 20 nov 06
I started my career in painting and from a very early age I have had the
opportunity to study under many people and visit some of the most wonderful
museums in the world. my first visual was of a watercolor artist when I was
5, his name is tom caltrider. anyway he made these beautiful pine trees.
it was magic, I could even smell the rich soil under the trees and the fresh
pine needles. oh how wonderful. it took me a month but I bugged my mom to
get me a real brush and real watercolors and I made a tree. no more
coloring on the paneling for me I was hooked. when I was 7 I seen my 1st
rembrandt, van gogh who is my fave and many more of the masters. it was a
traveling show that came to WV. I t was the armmor hammon collection and I
may have not spelt that proper. I could not contain myself, I crawled
under those ropes before anyone could get me and I carressed that van gogh.
oh I was in heaven, I started immediately taking adult classes with some
masters myself. when I was 8 I studied under a guy fresh from russia his
name was henryk fantazos. he taught egg tempera and the masters. he made
us copy the masters works and work study and work till it was correct. If
you have never seen an egg tempera painting other than in a book internet
ect run to your nearest museum. we have a wonderful museum in roswell, new
mexico and they have some of the finest pieces of work. my favorites are
peter hurds egg tempera paintings. it is like looking through several
pieces of colored glass. it is unexplainable.
when I do shows , I always bring along self hardening clay and a table
that is devoted for the children. I put pieces on that table for them to
buy and pick up and experience. If it breaks oh well. I also encourage my
costumers to pick up and come into my world ,after all I do this out of love
to give love back to any one and everyone. might sound mushy but what a
better way to be friendly is allow someone to see what you see.
and all you artist out there, volunteer once a year to go to the school
and bring some of your treasures and a little selfhardening clay and go
play. the art programs in our schools are quickly giving way to other stuff
to make everyone all uniform and robot like.
I do not know where I would be today if it had not been for some adults
that took an interest in me and helped me along in my pursuit of happiness.
be blessed and experience,
sheryl mc. in NM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Snail Scott"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: temmoku 3: Now, why I have hope for handmade pots
> At 07:15 PM 11/18/2006 -0600, you wrote:
> >> a) will the MTV/internet/flashed image overload generation make that
> >> pilgrimage to stand there, if they can google it? Will young folks care
> >> to find out the difference?
>
>
> Everything's got the same texture on an
> LCD screen. In a book, too. I never really
> 'got' van Gogh until I saw one of his
> paintings in person. It was a small,
> -Snail
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
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> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
primalmommy on mon 20 nov 06
Snail, my "art in the dark" classes have left a similar void... it's
THAT big? It's THAT small? it's THAT 3D on the surface?
My earliest recognition-by-artist experience was the childhood board
game, "Masterpiece". Sometimes all you need is that little feeling of
"owning" something to have it ring a bell with you when you see it
again.
Maybe that is the usefulness of the barrage of images for my kids'
generation. I know the bright, colorful, fast-paced videos of Grammar
Rock, History Rock, Science Rock and Multiplication Rock have served in
that way. The kids ride along with the songs, not, obviously, grasping
all the concepts... but later when we read about westward expansion in
some dry format, they sing "elbow room, elbow room, gotta gotta getcha
some elbow room"... I had college students who would sing aloud in
composition class to remember... "conjuction junction, what's your
function..."
My efforts have been to expose my kids, with no particular
grade-by-grade schedule or hierarchy of importance, to a little bit of
everything. If they are too little to get it, we'll cycle back... even
what they don't get leaves a trail of breadcrumbs for when they discover
it later. Molly and I play a Klimt painting memory game -- the kind with
little cardboard image squares, you know, where you flip them until you
find two that match? Detail shots with lots of gold leaf. I keep
thinking I would like to make a pottery version, and market it. Kids
could grow up matching the two Jomon pots, two Maria Martinez pots, two
Lucy Rie pots, the two Voulkous stacks, the two Jack Troys, and on and
on. Pottery and names burned into their little imaginations from an
early age.
Better yet... I'll choose whose pots to include in the collection based
on who sends me the biggest bribes ;0D That ought to pay for Winter
semester.
BTW, to those of you who suggested that I would be way too busy with
school pots to make anything to sell at holiday sales... yeah, I'm
pretty much eating crow on that one.
As for the idea that the peace (or pain) of the maker hovers in the
thing made... my granola friends from college onward have made that
claim. I know I feel like I am shaking the hand of the potter when I
lift my best coffee cup by the handle, and pots by potters who have died
are a little memorial and celebration of them.
The notion that the object carries a spark of its creator also
justifies, to me, not buying things made in sweatshops, and/or by child
labor. Couple that with "you are what you eat", and it means I am not
excited about eating factory farmed animals or the eggs of hens debeaked
and stacked in battery cages. So much of anxiety and depression are
shown to be linked to our body chemistries that I have to wonder --
unscientifically, of course -- about eating imprisonment, fear and
misery.
We all draw our own lines in the right place for our value systems about
what to support with our checkbook, what to prefer or boycott, and
whether we can afford to walk our talk. My veggie friend is horrified
that I spent much of yesterday grinding and packaging 40 pounds of fresh
venison for the freezer, to stack with chops, steaks and stew meat for
my family. Jeff got three this year in Connecticut, where suburban
sprawl and a reluctance to reintroduce cougars and wolves ;0) have made
population control a necessity. If you are what you eat, we're wild ;0)
(Phil: I know you worry. There's no CWD in CT, the biologist checks
every one. )
OK, it's time for homeschool, then off to momschool. Sorry for the
OT/soapbox. Buy free range organic thanksgiving turkeys, all. Except the
tofurkey crowd ;0)
Yours
Kelly in Ohio
http://www.primalpotter.com
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