Frank Colson on mon 20 nov 06
Vince- Thank you for the challange on this matter. I indeed addressed this
same subject in depth earlier this year on Clayart. There was a response to
that information confirming
that "ordinary ceramic fiber blanket DOES NOT....release carcinogenic
fibers" Sorry, but it just doesn't apply! I did 10 years of reasearch
using these materials BEFORE my book (Kiln Building with Space Age
Materials) was publishe in 1975. It is now 31 years later, I am still using
and working with these materials today. A recent physical gave me a
"perfect" lung condition. But not everyone is me, so this doesn't count!
Again, when I whitnessed ceramic fibers being made in the early 60's in a
large manufacturing complex, I couldn't believe
none of the workers did wore partical protecter masks. I still believe they
should have, then ,as now. But, is an overstatement of the theses
conditions you have offered. The specifics on this was clearly stated
earlier,
I would have to hunt the Clayart archives to identify which posting it was
on.
I know there are many types, and forms of ceramic fiber mateirals on the
market. But it gets a little tedious and time consuming to get into finding
what to order for what applicaion .
Minimum quanities are always price excessive. This virtually rules out the
simple solution at nearly no cost for the general "inhouse" potter.
If a "gasket" is made of scrap ceramic fibers, it should be regidized simply
for stabalization. Again, a simple way to do this, at,almost no cost, is to
cover the surface of the scraps with "kiln wash". Let it dry, or hit it
with a hair dryer, and then powder the surface with talc so the lid won't
stick to the gasket. Here is a, cost nothing, reciept for kiln wash-50%
Flint/50%Kaolin.
Enjoy, Live Well, and breath clearly!
Frank Colson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Kiln gasket?
> Frank Colson wrote:
>> /Any size and thickness gasket can stop heat leakage with a piece of
>> ceramic
>> fiber blanket, thick or thin!
>
> Frank -
> As a published expert on kilns, do you really want to recommend ordinary
> ceramic fiber blanked as a gasket, knowing that with each use it will be
> releasing volumes of carcinogenic fibers, when one could choose instead to
> purchase woven ceramic gasket material that is specifically designed for
> this application? Most of the makers of ceramic fiber also make a wide
> variety of other products, including woven gasket material.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Andy Misner on tue 21 nov 06
Well according to our suppliers'(Unifrax) MSDS on ceramic fiber it states:
CHRONIC EFFECT
There has been no increased incidence of respiratory disease in studies
examining occupationally exposed workers. In animal studies, long-term
laboratory exposure to doses hundreds of times higher than normal
occupational exposures has produced fibrosis, lung cancer, and mesothelioma
in rats or hamsters. The fibers used in those studies were specially sized
to maximize rodent respirability.
I'm of the opinion better to be safe than sorry.
Yes sometimes minimum quantities are more expensive. We have end cuts and
leftover that we sell at a good price. Then again we are a refractory
company not a ceramic supplier. We like the artist. It seems like they are
just more fun.
Andy
www.indfirebrick.com
feel free to send me an email and we will offer clayarter 20% off list prices.
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:44:25 -0800, Frank Colson wrote:
>Vince- Thank you for the challange on this matter. I indeed addressed this
>same subject in depth earlier this year on Clayart. There was a response to
>that information confirming
>that "ordinary ceramic fiber blanket DOES NOT....release carcinogenic
>fibers" Sorry, but it just doesn't apply! I did 10 years of reasearch
>using these materials BEFORE my book (Kiln Building with Space Age
>Materials) was publishe in 1975. It is now 31 years later, I am still using
>and working with these materials today. A recent physical gave me a
>"perfect" lung condition. But not everyone is me, so this doesn't count!
>Again, when I whitnessed ceramic fibers being made in the early 60's in a
>large manufacturing complex, I couldn't believe
>none of the workers did wore partical protecter masks. I still believe they
>should have, then ,as now. But, is an overstatement of the theses
>conditions you have offered. The specifics on this was clearly stated
>earlier,
> I would have to hunt the Clayart archives to identify which posting it was
>on.
>
>I know there are many types, and forms of ceramic fiber mateirals on the
>market. But it gets a little tedious and time consuming to get into finding
>what to order for what applicaion .
>Minimum quanities are always price excessive. This virtually rules out the
>simple solution at nearly no cost for the general "inhouse" potter.
>
>If a "gasket" is made of scrap ceramic fibers, it should be regidized simply
>for stabalization. Again, a simple way to do this, at,almost no cost, is to
>cover the surface of the scraps with "kiln wash". Let it dry, or hit it
>with a hair dryer, and then powder the surface with talc so the lid won't
>stick to the gasket. Here is a, cost nothing, reciept for kiln wash-50%
>Flint/50%Kaolin.
>
>Enjoy, Live Well, and breath clearly!
>
>Frank Colson
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Vince Pitelka"
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 4:14 PM
>Subject: Re: Kiln gasket?
>
>
>> Frank Colson wrote:
>>> /Any size and thickness gasket can stop heat leakage with a piece of
>>> ceramic
>>> fiber blanket, thick or thin!
>>
>> Frank -
>> As a published expert on kilns, do you really want to recommend ordinary
>> ceramic fiber blanked as a gasket, knowing that with each use it will be
>> releasing volumes of carcinogenic fibers, when one could choose instead to
>> purchase woven ceramic gasket material that is specifically designed for
>> this application? Most of the makers of ceramic fiber also make a wide
>> variety of other products, including woven gasket material.
>> - Vince
>>
>> Vince Pitelka
>> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
>> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
>> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
>> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>>
>>
______________________________________________________________________________
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on tue 21 nov 06
HEALTH EFFECTS SUMMARY :
The ban on the use of asbestos resulted in a
larger and larger use of substitution materials in
many industrial processes and in particular the
use of man-made vitreous fibers (MMVF).
In rodents, inhalational studies show that glass
insulation wools and slag wools produced
no permanent injury, even after 2 years of
exposure to high concentrations (at least 300-fold
the concentrations to which human SVF workers are
typically exposed).
In more recent rodent inhalational studies, two
durable SVF compositions were associated with
permanent lung injury : rock wool (MMVF 21)
induced fibrosis late in the study, and RCF
induced fibrosis and tumorigenesis. Other durable
fibers are pathogenic to animals : glass
microfiber E may also induce fibrosis and
tumorigenesis in rats, fiber glass 475 induces
fibrosis and possibly mesothelioma in hamsters but
not in rats.
In man, the main part of known health effects
comes from data collected among workers
of industries producing these fibers, where the
levels of exposure were low, much lower
than those encountered in many professional
situations by the finished product users.
Even if the relationship to the exposure to
rockwool fibers/slag wool fibers is not clearly
established, the observation of an excess of
bronchopulmonary cancers among workmen
producing these fibres must prompt us to be
vigilant and to control levels of exposure to
these fibers in the work environment. The SMRs for
bronchopulmonary cancer are lower among workmen of
glass wool production than among workmen of
rockwool/slag wool production.
Taking into account data observed in experiments
(excess of tumours) and preliminary information
obtained from man (suspicion of an excess of
benign pleural pathologies, and of respiratory
functional impairment of the obstructive type), an
attitude even more careful is essential with
respect to refractory ceramic fibres.
These fibres were classified in category 2
(similar substances to carcinogenic substances for
man) by the European Communities.
Nothing currently makes it possible to affirm that
a risk of nonmalignant respiratory
pathology exists for man with rock, glass, and
slag fibers. Nevertheless, experimental
data showed a real pathogenic effect for levels of
exposure close to those producing the
same effects with asbestos. Certain fibers, as
some made from glass, appear sufficiently
soluble to have no irreversible effects. Others
like ceramic fibers are more suspicious.
The absence of sufficient experience must prompt
us to pursue epidemiologic and
experimental studies, and to introduce an
effective prevention policy.
References :
1. Clinical Environmental Health and Toxic
Exposures, Sullivan J.B. & Krieger G.R., second
edition.
2. Effets sur la santé des fibres minérales
artificielles;Toxicologie, Pathologie
Professionnelle, Toxicologie, De Vuyst P.,
Brochard P., Poiron J.C.,Encyclopédie
Médico-Chirurgicale, Paris, 2000.
3. Les maladies respiratoires d'origine
professionnelle, Martinet, Antoine et Petiet,
second edition.
4. Règlement sur la Santé et la Sécurité du
Travail, Province de Québec.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Misner"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: Kiln gasket and much more!
> Well according to our suppliers'(Unifrax) MSDS
> on ceramic fiber it states:
>
>
> CHRONIC EFFECT
> There has been no increased incidence of
> respiratory disease in studies
> examining occupationally exposed workers. In
> animal studies, long-term
> laboratory exposure to doses hundreds of times
> higher than normal
> occupational exposures has produced fibrosis,
> lung cancer, and mesothelioma
> in rats or hamsters. The fibers used in those
> studies were specially sized
> to maximize rodent respirability.
>
> I'm of the opinion better to be safe than sorry.
>
> Yes sometimes minimum quantities are more
> expensive. We have end cuts and
> leftover that we sell at a good price. Then
> again we are a refractory
> company not a ceramic supplier. We like the
> artist. It seems like they are
> just more fun.
>
> Andy
> www.indfirebrick.com
>
> feel free to send me an email and we will offer
> clayarter 20% off list prices.
>
>
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:44:25 -0800, Frank Colson
> wrote:
>
>>Vince- Thank you for the challange on this
>>matter. I indeed addressed this
>>same subject in depth earlier this year on
>>Clayart. There was a response to
>>that information confirming
>>that "ordinary ceramic fiber blanket DOES
>>NOT....release carcinogenic
>>fibers" Sorry, but it just doesn't apply! I
>>did 10 years of reasearch
>>using these materials BEFORE my book (Kiln
>>Building with Space Age
>>Materials) was publishe in 1975. It is now 31
>>years later, I am still using
>>and working with these materials today. A recent
>>physical gave me a
>>"perfect" lung condition. But not everyone is
>>me, so this doesn't count!
>>Again, when I whitnessed ceramic fibers being
>>made in the early 60's in a
>>large manufacturing complex, I couldn't believe
>>none of the workers did wore partical protecter
>>masks. I still believe they
>>should have, then ,as now. But, is an
>>overstatement of the theses
>>conditions you have offered. The specifics on
>>this was clearly stated
>>earlier,
>> I would have to hunt the Clayart archives to
>> identify which posting it was
>>on.
>>
>>I know there are many types, and forms of
>>ceramic fiber mateirals on the
>>market. But it gets a little tedious and time
>>consuming to get into finding
>>what to order for what applicaion .
>>Minimum quanities are always price excessive.
>>This virtually rules out the
>>simple solution at nearly no cost for the
>>general "inhouse" potter.
>>
>>If a "gasket" is made of scrap ceramic fibers,
>>it should be regidized simply
>>for stabalization. Again, a simple way to do
>>this, at,almost no cost, is to
>>cover the surface of the scraps with "kiln
>>wash". Let it dry, or hit it
>>with a hair dryer, and then powder the surface
>>with talc so the lid won't
>>stick to the gasket. Here is a, cost nothing,
>>reciept for kiln wash-50%
>>Flint/50%Kaolin.
>>
>>Enjoy, Live Well, and breath clearly!
>>
>>Frank Colson
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Vince Pitelka"
>>To:
>>Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 4:14 PM
>>Subject: Re: Kiln gasket?
>>
>>
>>> Frank Colson wrote:
>>>> /Any size and thickness gasket can stop heat
>>>> leakage with a piece of
>>>> ceramic
>>>> fiber blanket, thick or thin!
>>>
>>> Frank -
>>> As a published expert on kilns, do you really
>>> want to recommend ordinary
>>> ceramic fiber blanked as a gasket, knowing
>>> that with each use it will be
>>> releasing volumes of carcinogenic fibers, when
>>> one could choose instead to
>>> purchase woven ceramic gasket material that is
>>> specifically designed for
>>> this application? Most of the makers of
>>> ceramic fiber also make a wide
>>> variety of other products, including woven
>>> gasket material.
>>> - Vince
>>>
>>> Vince Pitelka
>>> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee
>>> Technological University
>>> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
>>> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
>>> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>>> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>>>
>>>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>>
>>> You may look at the archives for the list or
>>> change your subscription
>>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>>
>>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may
>>> be reached at
>>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>>
>>
>>______________________________________________________________________________
>>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>>You may look at the archives for the list or
>>change your subscription
>>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
>>reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or
> change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
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