Jeri on sun 10 dec 06
Hello There!
I have a very old Duncan manual kiln that was old when I bought it 25 years
ago. I replaced all the elements but other than that it has been very
reliable. I bisque fire in it all the time and fire to cone 6. I can't
complain, it has been a good kiln for me with very little investment.
Jeri
Dopp
----- Original Message -----
From: "William & Susan Schran User"
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: Should I buy a used manual kiln?
> On 12/10/06 7:24 PM, "Smith, Judy" wrote:
>
> > Should I buy this kiln or should
> > I save my money for a slightly smaller digital kiln? How much trouble
> > is a manual kiln over a digital automatic kiln? Can I add a down draft
> > venting system to a manual kiln?
>
> If the kiln is in good shape then the price is good.
>
> Nothing at all wrong with a manual kiln, in fact, I would suggest, for a
> beginner, it's probably better than a programmable kiln. It will teach you
> to control the firing and use witness cones. Yes, you can add a downdraft
> direct vent to the kiln.
>
> But you will also need to find out if you have sufficient electrical
supply
> to power the kiln. You'll probably need a 50-60amp service.
>
>
> --
> William "Bill" Schran
> wschran@cox.net
> wschran@nvcc.edu
> http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
>
>
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Smith, Judy on sun 10 dec 06
My pottery school has a used manual kiln for sale for $375 dollars. It
is in pretty good condition. All of the coils are operational, but the
teacher said that two of them will need to be changed before too long
because they were stretched. This kiln is medium sized 23'' wide by 27"
deep in three sections. It does not have any shelves or a venting
system. Pottery is just a hobby for me, but I really like it and intend
to keep doing it for a very long time. Should I buy this kiln or should
I save my money for a slightly smaller digital kiln? How much trouble
is a manual kiln over a digital automatic kiln? Can I add a down draft
venting system to a manual kiln? The kiln will be in my garage, but my
husband has emphysema and I am concerned about fumes. Any suggestions
would be appreciated.
=20
Judy Smith
William & Susan Schran User on sun 10 dec 06
On 12/10/06 7:24 PM, "Smith, Judy" wrote:
> Should I buy this kiln or should
> I save my money for a slightly smaller digital kiln? How much trouble
> is a manual kiln over a digital automatic kiln? Can I add a down draft
> venting system to a manual kiln?
If the kiln is in good shape then the price is good.
Nothing at all wrong with a manual kiln, in fact, I would suggest, for a
beginner, it's probably better than a programmable kiln. It will teach you
to control the firing and use witness cones. Yes, you can add a downdraft
direct vent to the kiln.
But you will also need to find out if you have sufficient electrical supply
to power the kiln. You'll probably need a 50-60amp service.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Nancy on sun 10 dec 06
Smith, Judy wrote:
> My pottery school has a used manual kiln for sale for $375 dollars. It
> is in pretty good condition. All of the coils are operational, but the
> teacher said that two of them will need to be changed before too long
> because they were stretched. This kiln is medium sized 23'' wide by 27"
> deep in three sections. It does not have any shelves or a venting
> system. Pottery is just a hobby for me, but I really like it and intend
> to keep doing it for a very long time. Should I buy this kiln or should
> I save my money for a slightly smaller digital kiln? How much trouble
> is a manual kiln over a digital automatic kiln? Can I add a down draft
> venting system to a manual kiln? The kiln will be in my garage, but my
> husband has emphysema and I am concerned about fumes. Any suggestions
> would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Judy Smith
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Craig Clark on mon 11 dec 06
Judy, while a digital kiln does indeed make things easier for a
great many folks, there are still many of us who use our older manual
models. I have two older Skutts that just keep on going. I like the
manual controls, it is what I know. There is also less to go wrong with
the kiln when a computer is not mounted on the side of it.
If the kiln is working well, it doesn't have a bazillion miles on it
and all of the brick are intact, then the price is reasonable. This is
completely dependent upon how old the kilns is, how may times it has
been fired and what shape it is in. If the kiln is older and in OK
condition, then the price is a bit high from my perspective. If you are
not thrilled about paying that amount for a (?) year old kiln you might
either make them a much lower offer or just wait and see if they are
able to sell it. A lot of folks won't buy the older kilns so they may
have difficulty selling it at that price. Admittedly, this is
specultation on my part, though if you aren't in all that much of a
hurry it wouldn't hurt to wait a bit. There will always be another used
kiln or you could just save your pennies and go for a newer computer
controlled model.
If the elements are stretched out you can "unstretch" them by
heating them up with a small hand held torch and compressing the coils
with a pair of needle nose pliers. Start at the point where the elements
begin to stretch out. Get a nice red glow going in a couple of the coils
and then just gradually squeeze them back together with the needle nose
pliers. You will just continue this procedure until the coil fits back
into the groove properly. Make sure that you pin the element back into
the groove with those small pins that you can get from your favorite
ceramics supplier. It is important that while you are doing this you
make certain that the kiln is not connected to a power source.
I would also check to make sure that all of the elements work well
before spending that amount of money on the kiln. A new set of elements
will cost you in the region of two hundred dollars for many kilns and
this is something to consider. I say new set because it really doesn't
make any sense to just replace an element in an older kiln unless you
know for sure that the other elements had been recently replaced.
Also, be sure to carefully inspect the interior brick as well as the
lid and the stainless skirt around the kiln. Look at all of the straps
that hold the skirt together. SOmetimes they will give up the ghost over
a number of years and they are a pain in the butt to replace since you
are dealing with stainless.Make sure the handle (these are prone to wear
out) and all of those little screws that hold things together have not
rusted too badly, especially the ones that hold the handle and the
control panel onto the stainless. Make sure that the lid opens and
closes freely. Another thing that will go bad after time is the control
switches themselves. While they aren't that expensive they do require
the some dissasembly of the kiln to replace. Keep all of this in mind
while making your decision, especially since the kiln has been used in
an institutional setting where folks may not have always been that kind
to the kiln.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 St.
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
Smith, Judy wrote:
> My pottery school has a used manual kiln for sale for $375 dollars. It
> is in pretty good condition. All of the coils are operational, but the
> teacher said that two of them will need to be changed before too long
> because they were stretched. This kiln is medium sized 23'' wide by 27"
> deep in three sections. It does not have any shelves or a venting
> system. Pottery is just a hobby for me, but I really like it and intend
> to keep doing it for a very long time. Should I buy this kiln or should
> I save my money for a slightly smaller digital kiln? How much trouble
> is a manual kiln over a digital automatic kiln? Can I add a down draft
> venting system to a manual kiln? The kiln will be in my garage, but my
> husband has emphysema and I am concerned about fumes. Any suggestions
> would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Judy Smith
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Snail Scott on mon 11 dec 06
At 06:24 PM 12/10/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>My pottery school has a used manual kiln for sale for $375 dollars...This
kiln is medium sized 23'' wide by 27"
>deep in three sections...Should I buy this kiln or should
>I save my money for a slightly smaller digital kiln? How much trouble
>is a manual kiln over a digital automatic kiln? Can I add a down draft
>venting system to a manual kiln?
Get it.
It's a fair price, especially if it's in
good condition. A digital controller is a
nice item, but I've never felt that they
were worth the money. In a school or some
other setting where you simply can't be
there to tend the thing, (and where more
funds might be available for purchase,)
sure, but in my own studio I'd rather have
good manual kiln AND the extra cash than
have a digital kiln.
I've used digital kilns, but since I had a
manual one first, I don't consider a manual
kiln to be 'more trouble' but rather that a
digital one is less. And since I started out
with gas kilns which needed constant tending
and tweaking and monitoring, I consider
even a manual electric to be 'less trouble'
anyway. It's all in what you're used to, I
think.
A manual electric kiln is not a huge issue,
really. A programmable digital controller
offers tremendous fine-tuning control, and
can lead one to think that all that precision
(temperature control to a single exact degree,
multiple ramp speeds and holds, etc.) is
really necessary. Well, unless you are doing
crystalline glazes, it's not. Truly. (And
actually not even then - it's just easier.)
The critical stage of any firing, especially
bisque, is in the first few hundred degrees.
Turning up the knobs every hour or two is no
great hardship, and speed only needs to be
'slow enough', which it will be. (That's
usually about three 'turnups' - starting low
with lid cracked open, then low with lid
shut a while, and then to medium. After an
hour or so on medium (depending on thickness
and density of loading) it can be set to
'hi' and left to cook.
Several hours later, check on it to see
how it's doing. Having a good range of
witness cones will help you monitor its
progress, and once you've learned how fast
it fires, you can start to omit the extras.
Just enough cones: one to tell you when
you are getting 'in range' and it's time
to pay real attention (optional), one more
'guide cone' to tell you you're almost
there, a firing cone to tell you when
you're done, and a guard cone to tell you
whether you've overshot the mark and by
how much. I'd also put at least a firing
cone on the highest and lowest shelves, to
tell you how even the firing is. That's
less than a dollar's worth of cones per
firing, and having a digital kiln won't
save that, either. I think that anyone
who fires an automatic kiln without a few
witness cones (to check the accuracy of
the controller and the evenness of the
kiln) is nuts.
Also, with a manual kiln, you can tweak
the settings of each ring independently,
to even out an unbalanced firing by eye.
Can't do that with a digital controller.
I also like the fact that I can fix nearly
any problem with a screwdriver. Computer
problems are rare, but I can't fix them
myself, and Murphy's Law tells me that
kiln breakdowns occur at the least
convenient moment possible.
If going digital means downsizing, then I'd
definitely skip that. Even if you don't fire
huge loads, the larger chamber gives much
more flexibility in what forms you can fire
together, and it won't cost that much more
to fire.
You might want to get a pyrometer eventually,
but it's not essential.
You can hook up a vent to any electric kiln;
digital or manual makes no difference. If
you plan to work in the same space while
the kiln is firing, it's a must.
Since this is coming out of a school, make
sure it runs on single-phase power! Many
kilns made for institutional use are three-
phase, and can't be hooked up to domestic
power without serious modification. A look
at the info plate riveted to the side will
tell you directly whether it's 1-phase or
3-phase.
-Snail
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