Patrick Cross on thu 14 dec 06
So, I'm going to sit on Santa's lap this week and I don't know what to tell
him. I'm asking for my first electric kiln and not sure which manufacturer
to go with...
I'm thinking:
L & L
Olympic
Paragon
Who thinks they have the answer?
Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
Pat Logue on fri 15 dec 06
I'll throw in my two cents.
I have used paragon extensively with no problems at all to speak of.
I also bought a used L&L a few years back. I love those element trays, no
decay of brick there. and simple element replacement.
I guess L&L would win by a nose in my world right now.
Patrick Logue
Kingfisher Studio
On 12/14/06, Patrick Cross wrote:
>
> So, I'm going to sit on Santa's lap this week and I don't know what to
> tell
> him. I'm asking for my first electric kiln and not sure which
> manufacturer
> to go with...
>
> I'm thinking:
>
> L & L
> Olympic
> Paragon
>
> Who thinks they have the answer?
>
> Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
William & Susan Schran User on fri 15 dec 06
On 12/14/06 10:03 PM, "Patrick Cross" wrote:
> I'm asking for my first electric kiln and not sure which manufacturer
> to go with...
> I'm thinking:
> L & L
> Olympic
> Paragon
> Who thinks they have the answer?
"Hayelp me decide"? You must be southern! ;^)
How will you be using the kiln?
What will be your firing temperature?
I ask, because if you will be firing to ^10, you will need to replace the
elements more frequently and the L&L will make that task much easier. I'd
also suggest getting an upgrade with the elements and go with 3" brick.
One important thing to consider - what's the technical/troubleshooting
support like? L&L has a very good manual and good technical support. Paragon
has good technical support and you have Arnold here on the forum. My
experience with Olympic's support has not been very good. Their manual is
lacking and support is terrible.
The Paragon and some models of Skutt don't use crimped connectors that I'd
suggest are more difficult to install without the proper equipment, so that
would be a consideration.
I've had an Olympic, aka Axner Super kiln, which utilizes crimped
connectors, but I can't recommend that brand for other reasons.
FYI - Arnold Howard will be doing his kiln operation/maintenance/repair
presentation at NCECA in the Clayart room. I will be doing a short
presentation after him about the various connector types used in several
brands of kilns. I hope this will help folks understand/see the connector
types (crimp, barrel, split bolt, etc,) we discuss on this forum.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Maid O'Mud on fri 15 dec 06
ConeArt :-)
Sam Cuttell
Maid O'Mud Pottery
RR 1
Melbourne, Ontario
N0L 1T0
CANADA
"First, the clay told me what to do.
Then, I told the clay what to do.
Now, we co-operate."
sam 1994
http://www.ody.ca/~scuttell/
scuttell@ody.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Cross"
> So, I'm going to sit on Santa's lap this week and I don't know what to
tell
> him. I'm asking for my first electric kiln and not sure which
manufacturer
> to go with...
>
> I'm thinking:
>
> L & L
> Olympic
> Paragon
>
> Who thinks they have the answer?
>
> Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
>
jonathan edward byler on fri 15 dec 06
We have a bailey electric kiln here. I am generally pretty happy
with the way that Jim Bailey designs and builds things. Their
customer service is very good too. the only thing I don't really
like is the way they charge for shipping on shelves and the like. it
is EXPENSIVE. but having not bought shelves or other heavy stuff
from other suppliers, I really can't complain.
regardless of what brand you buy, get a computer controller. A lot
of folks might steer you away from the computer controllers, but the
money is well spent. The one we have has three zone control on the
elements and gets nice even firings so far as I can tell. it also
allows simple programming of special, repeatable firing schedules.
we have recently been using ours to fire crystaline glazes, where we
have to come to temperature, and then soak at a lower temperature for
a set time. We can repeat results rather easily which means no ugly
surprises when the kiln fires off. No point in sitting around
tending to your electric kiln when you could be making more pots!
I have a coworker with an electric kiln with no zone control, and he
has to fight with it every time to get an even firing. It would have
only been $300 more, and he regrets it every time he has to sit and
baby the thing into firing evenly. which is a lot. He does terra
cotta work fired to cone 6, and the color is off if he can't get even
temperatures in the kiln.
Get a kiln sitter too if you are not going to be around when it
fires. no point in taking the risk with your studio burning down...
it's a cheap and easy safety device.
On Dec 15, 2006, at 8:17 AM, William & Susan Schran User wrote:
> On 12/14/06 10:03 PM, "Patrick Cross" wrote:
>
>> I'm asking for my first electric kiln and not sure which
>> manufacturer
>> to go with...
>> I'm thinking:
>> L & L
>> Olympic
>> Paragon
>> Who thinks they have the answer?
>
> "Hayelp me decide"? You must be southern! ;^)
>
> How will you be using the kiln?
> What will be your firing temperature?
>
> I ask, because if you will be firing to ^10, you will need to
> replace the
> elements more frequently and the L&L will make that task much
> easier. I'd
> also suggest getting an upgrade with the elements and go with 3"
> brick.
>
> One important thing to consider - what's the technical/troubleshooting
> support like? L&L has a very good manual and good technical
> support. Paragon
> has good technical support and you have Arnold here on the forum. My
> experience with Olympic's support has not been very good. Their
> manual is
> lacking and support is terrible.
>
> The Paragon and some models of Skutt don't use crimped connectors
> that I'd
> suggest are more difficult to install without the proper equipment,
> so that
> would be a consideration.
>
> I've had an Olympic, aka Axner Super kiln, which utilizes crimped
> connectors, but I can't recommend that brand for other reasons.
>
> FYI - Arnold Howard will be doing his kiln operation/maintenance/
> repair
> presentation at NCECA in the Clayart room. I will be doing a short
> presentation after him about the various connector types used in
> several
> brands of kilns. I hope this will help folks understand/see the
> connector
> types (crimp, barrel, split bolt, etc,) we discuss on this forum.
>
>
> --
> William "Bill" Schran
> wschran@cox.net
> wschran@nvcc.edu
> http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
William & Susan Schran User on fri 15 dec 06
On 12/15/06 1:56 PM, "jonathan edward byler" wrote:
> Get a kiln sitter too if you are not going to be around when it
> fires. no point in taking the risk with your studio burning down...
> it's a cheap and easy safety device.
Please, please do NOT follow this advice!
Yes, do get the kiln sitter, but do not ever leave the kiln to shut itself
off. Whether an electrical or mechanical device, things can AND will go
wrong.
Be safe, be there to check the end of the firing.
You should also be using witness cones.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Tom Sawyer on fri 15 dec 06
L & L. I have had the others; I now have 3 L & Ls.
Tom Sawyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Maid O'Mud
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 12:12 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Hayelp me decide on an Electric Kiln
ConeArt :-)
Sam Cuttell
Maid O'Mud Pottery
RR 1
Melbourne, Ontario
N0L 1T0
CANADA
"First, the clay told me what to do.
Then, I told the clay what to do.
Now, we co-operate."
sam 1994
http://www.ody.ca/~scuttell/
scuttell@ody.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Cross"
> So, I'm going to sit on Santa's lap this week and I don't know what to
tell
> him. I'm asking for my first electric kiln and not sure which
manufacturer
> to go with...
>
> I'm thinking:
>
> L & L
> Olympic
> Paragon
>
> Who thinks they have the answer?
>
> Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Anne Doyle on fri 15 dec 06
Hi!
I know i'm a newbie, but having recently researched this topic rather
intensely {ad-nauseum,some might say:)}for my own purchase, i feel that i
can throw my $0.02 in...
I bought the L&L e28s...
Several reasons...
I was looking at all the various features from one kiln manufacturer to the
next, elements in the floors, extra insulation, but was won over by several
features of the L&L , and several factors were considered...
-First off, their customer service and tech support (thanx Rob!) very very
helpful and were very patient with my questions and gave very good answers.
-Then there's the element holders and the longevity of the kilns
themselves, a quick search thru the archives will show you numerous
problems that may arise with various kilns and i was impressed with the
satisfaction of L&L owners and the resolutions to their difficulties with
even older kilns
-But what really won me over was going into shops and seeing the other
brands, the way their kiln lids were hinged and how hard it would be to
load and unload the bottom of the kilns, well, that's the reason we got the
28s, (it's 28 inches wide but only 18 inches deep, so even with my small
size and bad back, its not too bad to load and unload, there is no major
straining involved with reaching the bottom)...
-Also, some of the other kilns didn't come apart as easy and that was a big
issue for me as we had to take it apart and bring it in in sections
-Also, (o.k. this shouldn't have been last but hey, i'm tired)i reaaaallly
liked the computer controls and the ventsure system... the easy-fire makes
it so nice for me as i've never taken pottery (or chemistry) courses other
than a quick 1-wk intensive wheel-throwing course (25 hrs) and i have had
to self-edumacate myself about all sorts, the ease of use of this kiln's
controller was a blessing... i am now learning at a pace that suits me and
the firings have been an education even with the controller!! Never trust
the controller to care for your babies ( read: fire your pots) unattended!!
Always be around for the end just in case... and use cones all over, on
every shelf, even on opposite sides of the kiln, you'll learn a lot about
your kiln by doing that!
-After the fact, we are absolutely thrilled with the way it was shipped and
packaged and the condition it was in when it arrived, having heard lots of
horror stories about damaged kilns upon delivery... it was great!
All in all, it was a great shopping experience with L&L and i highly
recommend them and NO, i do not own shares or any other connections to the
company and all the usual disclaimers go here (insert bla-bla-bla)
Whatever you decide, good luck with the purchase, your kiln is more
important than the wheel in some ways, cause you can do lots of stuff
without the wheel but very little without the kiln and the price tag alone
for the purchase of the kiln makes it a major purchase and one you really
need to feel confident about... Get fired up!!
Anne, in Saint-Sauveur where the snow is almost all melted and there's rain
forecast for tonight again:( oh, well, so much for XMas skiing! XMas
potting instead?!!;)
Snail Scott on sat 16 dec 06
>On 12/15/06 1:56 PM, jonathan b wrote:
>> Get a kiln sitter too if you are not going to be around when it
>> fires.
At 03:56 PM 12/15/2006 -0500, Bill S wrote:
>Please, please do NOT follow this advice!
Relying on a mechanical cutoff is a risk.
Not a huge one, but some. The more cutoffs
you have, though, the less likely it is
that all of them will fail at once.
A timer, a kiln sitter, a computerized
controller, a human being: all of these
are redundant systems which back each
other up.
A sitter is a great redundant fail-safe.
It's a lot to ask for it to be solely
responsible for your whole firing, though.
Life's a crapshoot, but the odds aren't
quite good enough to suit me on that bet.
I can't always be in the studio for the
duration of a firing. I try to fire when
I'm going to be there, but if I'm called
away (life happens), and I don't get back
in time to end the firing, (family crisis,
car trouble, hit by a falling anvil,
whatever), there's a measure of security
there. If I can reach a friend by phone,
I could say, "please drive over and shut
down the breaker", but if I can't reach
anyone, I'll be glad I have a kiln sitter.
The kilnsitter is my friend! But like any
friend, it's wrong to demand too much of
it.
-Snail
Richard Walker on sun 31 dec 06
No question from my end Tara, Skutt leads the list. It is reliable, and Skutt backs up its warranty to the letter. Fired five of them in Arizona over a four year period everyday and had no problems other than changing a thermocouple now and then. Great kilns, great warrenty, great service.
Dick
>From: Tara McGee
>Date: 2006/12/31 Sun PM 09:42:28 CST
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: Hayelp me decide on an Electric Kiln
>I have a 20 cubic L& L and is great it you make a lot of pots! But I have
>downsized and the skutt is best.
>t
>
>
>>From: Patrick Cross
>>Reply-To: Clayart
>>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>>Subject: Hayelp me decide on an Electric Kiln
>>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:03:32 -0600
>>
>>So, I'm going to sit on Santa's lap this week and I don't know what to tell
>>him. I'm asking for my first electric kiln and not sure which manufacturer
>>to go with...
>>
>>I'm thinking:
>>
>>L & L
>>Olympic
>>Paragon
>>
>>Who thinks they have the answer?
>>
>>Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
>>
>>______________________________________________________________________________
>>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>melpots@pclink.com.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Tara McGee on sun 31 dec 06
I have a 20 cubic L& L and is great it you make a lot of pots! But I have
downsized and the skutt is best.
t
>From: Patrick Cross
>Reply-To: Clayart
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Hayelp me decide on an Electric Kiln
>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:03:32 -0600
>
>So, I'm going to sit on Santa's lap this week and I don't know what to tell
>him. I'm asking for my first electric kiln and not sure which manufacturer
>to go with...
>
>I'm thinking:
>
>L & L
>Olympic
>Paragon
>
>Who thinks they have the answer?
>
>Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
Patrick Cross on mon 1 jan 07
Well now there's something new to add into the mix.
I mentioned to a friend that I was shopping for an electric kiln and she
asked if I wanted to buy hers...an Olympic Oval. I'm not sure of which
model it is as I have never seen it...but I think it's one of, if not the
biggest one they make. I wasn't even going to seriously consider an Oly
(would prefer an L&L) but the price on hers is very tempting...$350. I
believe it is about 7 years old... has only been fired 3-4 times...and she
works in the low fire range. My friend has been too busy with that little
thing going on in Iraq and Afghanistan to devote time to ceramic
endeavors...and after one more year of that she's off to law school.
There will be the cost of palletizing and freight added to the price but
still, I'm not sure how I can pass that up. Speaking of shipping
kilns...Any suggestions on who to use? The kiln would be coming from
southern Arizona and headed to central Mississippi.
Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
On 12/31/06, Tara McGee wrote:
>
> I have a 20 cubic L& L and is great it you make a lot of pots! But I have
> downsized and the skutt is best.
> t
>
>
> >From: Patrick Cross
> >Reply-To: Clayart
> >To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> >Subject: Hayelp me decide on an Electric Kiln
> >Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:03:32 -0600
> >
> >So, I'm going to sit on Santa's lap this week and I don't know what to
> tell
> >him. I'm asking for my first electric kiln and not sure which
> manufacturer
> >to go with...
> >
> >I'm thinking:
> >
> >L & L
> >Olympic
> >Paragon
> >
> >Who thinks they have the answer?
> >
> >Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
> >
>
> >______________________________________________________________________________
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> >melpots@pclink.com.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Fred Hagen on mon 1 jan 07
I have a 7cu.ft. L&L with 3 thermocouples (which I like) but only 2.5 =20
in bricks. Whatever you buy I would recommend 3 or even 3.5 in bricks =20
if you can get it. Skutt and L$L seem to be the market leaders --don't =20
think you can go wrong with either.
Fred Hagen
Quoting Richard Walker :
> No question from my end Tara, Skutt leads the list. It is =20
> reliable, and Skutt backs up its warranty to the letter. Fired five =20
> of them in Arizona over a four year period everyday and had no =20
> problems other than changing a thermocouple now and then. Great =20
> kilns, great warrenty, great service.
>
> Dick
>
>> From: Tara McGee
>> Date: 2006/12/31 Sun PM 09:42:28 CST
>> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Subject: Re: Hayelp me decide on an Electric Kiln
>
>> I have a 20 cubic L& L and is great it you make a lot of pots! But I have
>> downsized and the skutt is best.
>> t
>>
>>
>>> From: Patrick Cross
>>> Reply-To: Clayart
>>> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>>> Subject: Hayelp me decide on an Electric Kiln
>>> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:03:32 -0600
>>>
>>> So, I'm going to sit on Santa's lap this week and I don't know what to t=
ell
>>> him. I'm asking for my first electric kiln and not sure which manufactu=
rer
>>> to go with...
>>>
>>> I'm thinking:
>>>
>>> L & L
>>> Olympic
>>> Paragon
>>>
>>> Who thinks they have the answer?
>>>
>>> Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
>>>
>>> ________________________________________________________________________=
______
>>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>>
>>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>>
>>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________________=
_____
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =20
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> __________________________________________________________________________=
____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =20
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Jeanie Silver on mon 1 jan 07
Dear Patrick
I'd like to put in a good word for the Olympic,which is often unjustly maligned. I've had their largest oval for 18 years. I bought it because it had the largest firing chamber for the least amout of money-no other reason. If you were buying it new, there are other kilns out there with more quality features, and I would probebly reccomend one with hard-brick element channels. But having said that, I'd like to say that my Oly has had hundreds of fireings-probebly over a thousand- and has never failed me..its not pretty anymore,but its willing and able.
Jeanie in Pa.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Patrick Cross
> Well now there's something new to add into the mix.
>
> I mentioned to a friend that I was shopping for an electric kiln and she
> asked if I wanted to buy hers...an Olympic Oval. I'm not sure of which
> model it is as I have never seen it...but I think it's one of, if not the
> biggest one they make. I wasn't even going to seriously consider an Oly
> (would prefer an L&L) but the price on hers is very tempting...$350. I
> believe it is about 7 years old... has only been fired 3-4 times...and she
> works in the low fire range. My friend has been too busy with that little
> thing going on in Iraq and Afghanistan to devote time to ceramic
> endeavors...and after one more year of that she's off to law school.
>
> There will be the cost of palletizing and freight added to the price but
> still, I'm not sure how I can pass that up. Speaking of shipping
> kilns...Any suggestions on who to use? The kiln would be coming from
> southern Arizona and headed to central Mississippi.
>
> Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
>
>
> On 12/31/06, Tara McGee wrote:
> >
> > I have a 20 cubic L& L and is great it you make a lot of pots! But I have
> > downsized and the skutt is best.
> > t
> >
> >
> > >From: Patrick Cross
> > >Reply-To: Clayart
> > >To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > >Subject: Hayelp me decide on an Electric Kiln
> > >Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:03:32 -0600
> > >
> > >So, I'm going to sit on Santa's lap this week and I don't know what to
> > tell
> > >him. I'm asking for my first electric kiln and not sure which
> > manufacturer
> > >to go with...
> > >
> > >I'm thinking:
> > >
> > >L & L
> > >Olympic
> > >Paragon
> > >
> > >Who thinks they have the answer?
> > >
> > >Patrick Cross (cone10soda)
> > >
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________________________________________
> > >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > >melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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