Stephanie Wright on sun 7 jan 07
Hello Everybody,
Once again, I have questions, questions, questions!
First - Up until recently, I have been mainly working with stoneware, and
only porcelain once in a blue moon. I have decided that I would like to
use porcelain more frequently, now that the technical side of my throwing
has improved a bit. I have a project in mind that would involve alot of
detailed carving. I know porcelain can be tricky to carve. Does anyone
have any tips they can share when it comes to carving a porcelain vessel
that is not flat (ie- a vase or goblet)?
Second question - Can grog be added to porcelain without it losing all its
smoothness and translucency in firing? (Sorry if this one sounds silly!)
Third - Does anyone have some tips they can share re trimming oval forms
on the wheel?
Thanks!
Stephanie
Carole Fox on sun 7 jan 07
Stephanie-
I often carve round forms directly on the wheel but I also like to carve
pieces on my lap. Use a large towel to catch the carvings or just let them
fall to the floor and clean up afterwards. You can also use an easel to hold
your piece.Easels were just mentioned on the list not too long ago, so check
the archives for more info. I have also used an overturned small bucket on
the wheel to move a low form up to eye level. If the bottom of your bucket
is not totally flat, put a bat on it. If you can get your hands on some
Bison carving tools, they are the best. Pricey for sure, but worth every
penny. They will even carve porcelain that has gone beyond leatherhard,
though you should aim for the leatherhard stage.
Do NOT add grog if you want to carve. It will leave little holes and rough
spots in the carved areas.You will probably need to go over the carved areas
with a sponge to soften the sharp edges.
I do not know why you think that carving porcelain is tricky. I think it is
the easiest and best clay for carving.
Good luck!
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
silverfoxpottery@comcast.net
Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on sun 7 jan 07
Hi Stephanie--
I have suggestions for 2 of your 3 questions:
> I know porcelain can be tricky to carve. Does anyone
> have any tips they can share when it comes to carving a porcelain
> vessel
> that is not flat (ie- a vase or goblet)?
I use something wide and soft, like a slab of foam rubber. I put the
piece on my lap on top of the foam because it holds the piece more
securely without applying too much pressure. You can do the same
thing on a table top if it's easier.
> Second question - Can grog be added to porcelain without it losing
> all its
> smoothness and translucency in firing? (Sorry if this one sounds
> silly!)
You could add porcelain grog. It will make carving more difficult
however, and add rough texture where you won't want it. It shouldn't
affect translucency unless you put in a lot. I don't use it--I
haven't seen that it helps enough to offset the added texture.
Good luck, and have fun with the carving!
Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
Ann Brink on sun 7 jan 07
I'll just respond to your "Third" question: Use a sharp trimming tool and go
SLOW, and you can trim oval things. Or you can use a tool to take off clay
by hand, in a repetitive pattern around the bottom edge, and it would be a
design element.
Ann Brink in Lompoc CA
(mostly about pottery)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephanie Wright"
Subject: Please lend your expertise re carving porcelain
> Hello Everybody,
>
> Once again, I have questions, questions, questions!
>
> First - Up until recently, I have been mainly working with stoneware, and
> only porcelain once in a blue moon. I have decided that I would like to
> use porcelain more frequently, now that the technical side of my throwing
> has improved a bit. I have a project in mind that would involve alot of
> detailed carving. I know porcelain can be tricky to carve. Does anyone
> have any tips they can share when it comes to carving a porcelain vessel
> that is not flat (ie- a vase or goblet)?
>
> Second question - Can grog be added to porcelain without it losing all its
> smoothness and translucency in firing? (Sorry if this one sounds silly!)
>
> Third - Does anyone have some tips they can share re trimming oval forms
> on the wheel?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Stephanie
>
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sun 7 jan 07
Hi Stephanie,
Unless you are intending to Carve after the piece
is fired...it would make sense to have a Clay Body
of whatever kind, to be as fine-grained and as
smooth and homogeneous as possible.
For which 'Grog' ( unless Cake-Flour 'Fine' ) is
likely to be the anathema.
Unless by the term 'Carve' you mean merely some
very basic aperatures or heavy designs...
The whole appeal of Porcelain, usually, is it's
very fine texture, homogenuity, and
smoothness...if not as well, it's translucense...
Trimming 'Ovals' ( or Elipses ) c-o-u-l-d be done
on a special Potter's Wheel, on which the forms
could be Thrown initially as well...or, on some
device which uses the same kind of mechanism for
converting a rotation into what usually is an
adjustable/variable Eliptical rotation...and such
a device could be made to convert any Potter's
wheel to do this kind rotation.
Of course one's Hands, and later, the Trimming
Tool, would have to be kept quite closely IN
(just) one place of the orbit...
Or God help you!
Lol...
I made such-a-device a long time ago, for making
various Eliptical Picture and Mirror Frames or
other similar things, but in this case, the Work
was fastened down and stationary, and an Electric
Router was moved in the device to produce the
various successive passes for making or matching
different Moulding profiles, rabbets, steps and so
on which might be desired. It was very versatile.
Anyway, hmmmmm...some sketches on a napkin, some
Machine Shop forays, and one could make a Potter's
Wheel for Throwing and Trimming various sorts of
Elipses...
Should I make these and offer them? A 'conversion'
Kit for anyone's Wheel? Or such a Wheel itself?
It would give Shimpo et al some pause for
amusement I think...or, inspire them to
emulation...?
Does anyone know if such Potter's Wheels have ever
been built?
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephanie Wright"
> Hello Everybody,
>
> Once again, I have questions, questions,
questions!
>
> First - Up until recently, I have been mainly
working with stoneware, and
> only porcelain once in a blue moon. I have
decided that I would like to
> use porcelain more frequently, now that the
technical side of my throwing
> has improved a bit. I have a project in mind
that would involve alot of
> detailed carving. I know porcelain can be tricky
to carve. Does anyone
> have any tips they can share when it comes to
carving a porcelain vessel
> that is not flat (ie- a vase or goblet)?
>
> Second question - Can grog be added to porcelain
without it losing all its
> smoothness and translucency in firing? (Sorry if
this one sounds silly!)
>
> Third - Does anyone have some tips they can
share re trimming oval forms
> on the wheel?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Stephanie
>
>
__________________________________________________
____________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or
change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Heather Pedersen on mon 8 jan 07
Hi Stephinie!
I have some opinions for you with the following cavets: I have done quite a
bit of carving, but only one or two oval things.
On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:55:28 -0500, Stephanie Wright
wrote:
>First - Up until recently, I have been mainly working with stoneware, and
>only porcelain once in a blue moon. I have decided that I would like to
>use porcelain more frequently, now that the technical side of my throwing
>has improved a bit. I have a project in mind that would involve alot of
>detailed carving. I know porcelain can be tricky to carve. Does anyone
>have any tips they can share when it comes to carving a porcelain vessel
>that is not flat (ie- a vase or goblet)?
I have to agree with the other people who have posted, carving porcelain is
not any more difficult then other clays. I usually use B-mix, but use
porcelain sometimes for grins.
1. Having the work at eye level is a boon for your neck.
2. Having the work sit on something at eye level, so you don't have to hold
it there, is a boon for your arm.
There are many methods of carving, and I don't know which you plan to use,
but in general, for carving porcelain, it should be a bit drier then you
would normally carve stoneware at. If you are planning to do a lot of
cutting in your carving, i.e. using loop tools with a sharp edge, a
moisture of a little past leather hard is good. If you are planning on
doing something more like Martha Kean, with a round wire loop tool (or
other dull tools) the clay needs to be softer or the tool will gouge
easily. Bison tools like things to be more firm. Generally the sharper
your cutting tool, the dryer your piece should be, and conversely the
duller your tool, the softer your clay should be. These methods can be
used with grogged clay, if you like the look. See additional notes below.
For scraping methods such as used by Lynn Meade, the pot is carved while
bone dry, using a dust mask and a water filled paint brush to smooth. This
technique works best without grogg, though if you like the groogged look
(holds stain color better) then go ahead.
Also, if you are going for fine detail, I suggest you rough out your design
at a softer state (say leatherhard), and put in your finer details at
progressively dryer states. Burrs only come off at the bone dry state so
your design doesn't smudge or scratch.
>Second question - Can grog be added to porcelain without it losing all its
>smoothness and translucency in firing? (Sorry if this one sounds silly!)
If you are adding grogg made out of the same clay body then translucency
shouldn't be a problem, though it is not something I have ever experimented
with, just heard through the grapevine.
The grogg does make carving more difficult if smoothness is what you're
going for. The methods I use for that is either going over all the areas
that have been cut with a horn modelling tool to push all that pesky grogg
back into the clay, or if the carving I want to do is shallow enough, I
just use the horn modelling tools to 'push' the clay down and away from all
my raised edges rather then cutting (carving) at all! Looks the same as
carving, and you don't have the problem of stains and glazes getting
absorbed at different rates over the cut (non-compressed) areas vs. the
virgin thrown areas.
Note, these methods only work if you are carving at around leatherhard, or
before. Pretty tough to model in bone dry clay o'course.
>Third - Does anyone have some tips they can share re trimming oval forms
>on the wheel?
As I said before, I haven't done a whole lot of these, but depending on the
form I am doing and what ovaling method I use, I can trim it slightly soft,
before I make the pot into an oval. This is when you are making the pot
round, and letting it stiffen before making it oval, either the bottomless-
pot-add-slab-bottom method, or the cutting-the-eye-out-of-the-bottom-and-
sqeezing-it-together method.
As I read back over what I've written I'm not entirely sure everything
makes sense, but lets go with it.
Good luck, and we want to see pictures when you're done!!
-= Heather Pedersen
Marcia Selsor on mon 8 jan 07
I use an easel for larger vase forms. I was getting hairline cracks
when I just held the piece with my hand in the neck.
I also use a spray bottle in areas where I am working to avoid
unwanted chipping. I try to work in a leather hard stage but
sometimes they dry faster than my carving.
I am looking forward to my new humid atmosphere of tropical south
Texas compared to a dry climate of Montana. It not only is affecting
my subject matter but also my technique.
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on mon 8 jan 07
On Jan 7, 2007, at 11:53 PM, sacredclay wrote:
> Lynn, Isn't Molochite the same thing as porcelain grog? Kathryn in NC
> table top if it's easier.
>>
>>> Second question - Can grog be added to porcelain without it losing
>>> all its
>>> smoothness and translucency in firing? (Sorry if this one sounds
>>> silly!)
>>
>> You could add porcelain grog. It will make carving more difficult
>> however, and add rough texture where you won't want it. It shouldn't
>> affect translucency unless you put in a lot. I don't use it--I
>> haven't seen that it helps enough to offset the added texture.
Same stuff! I was typing and, suddenly, my brain wouldn't come up
with the spelling for molochite.
(I figured that most people would know what I was talking about, and
all ceramic supply places would know as well.)
Lynn
Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
sacredclay on mon 8 jan 07
Lynn, Isn't Molochite the same thing as porcelain grog? Kathryn in NC
table top if it's easier.
>
> > Second question - Can grog be added to porcelain without it losing
> > all its
> > smoothness and translucency in firing? (Sorry if this one sounds
> > silly!)
>
> You could add porcelain grog. It will make carving more difficult
> however, and add rough texture where you won't want it. It shouldn't
> affect translucency unless you put in a lot. I don't use it--I
> haven't seen that it helps enough to offset the added texture.
>
>
> Good luck, and have fun with the carving!
>
>
> Lynn Goodman
> Fine Porcelain Pottery
> Cell 347-526-9805
> www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@...
>
| |
|
