Leigh Whitaker on fri 19 jan 07
This has been an interesting thread.
I have a question. I have a great interest in learning how to make glazes.
I'm not sure why, except that I am a molecular biologist and my husband is a
chemist, so we are "experimental" types of people. Making glazes sounds
like a big happy experiment to me. I could keep a "lab" notebook! Joy!
What's keeping me back is #1 the start-up cost of all the ingredients and
equipment, #2 complete lack of knowledge and being overwhelmed with choices, and
#3 not having my own kiln would make this a very sloooow process.
What would be the best way to start? Should I get a book (Mastering Cone 6
glazes looked good)? If I do should I focus on one particular temperature?.
The studio I take my class at will do both cone 6 and cone 9 (ox and redux).
Should I start with testing a base glaze, and then start adding stuff to
modify it? Should I get a software program? Or should I just stick with
commercial glazes for a while?
I guess another alternative would be to get a commercial base glaze and
experiment by adding stuff to it.
Thanks for any suggestion.
Leigh
Lois Ruben Aronow on fri 19 jan 07
Here's what I would do if glazes were my #1 quest. By the way, I think your
reasons for being so interested in glazes are the best I've ones heard. No
offense to anyone, but I'm so bored with all the requests for an easy to
make, tried and true, looks good on everything, revenue blue. It doesn't
exist and there is no substitute for testing and (in my case) lots and lots
of mistake making. That where you find your gems.
SO:
- decide what kind of glazes you want to work with. My guess is you're
leaning toward mid-range oxidation. Mastering ^6 is a good place to start,
but I would make the Chappell and the Hamer staples in your library,
especially since you and your husband are comfortable with chemistry AND
because you have access to a reduction atmosphere.
- Get a test kiln if you want to fire at home. Be sure that it will fire
to your desired temperature. Your kiln work, your clay body and your bisque
method are all essential to glaze making and testing.
- You are right on the money with starting by finding a good base glaze
running from there. You'll never learn how a glaze works and fits if you
don't know how to tinker. Knowing how to modify correctly is essential
knowledge, whether you are a potter or a knitter (I am both) or a chef.
- Just my opinion: I take crazy notes and often keep test shards. I write
notes in a notebook, and also write as much info as possible in underglaze
pencil on the shard, so I know what's what a year later. These note include
which clay body I used, and my bisque/glost schedules. My shard notes look
like cryptic code, but it works for me.
- I confess to using a glaze program only to have a database in which to
store my recipes. Ron & John will smack my for this, but I just can't deal
with the minutiae of most glaze programs. Which is exactly the reason you
might want one.
- Be sure to post pics of your experiments. A Flickr account is free, and
sharing is nice.
****
Lois Ruben Aronow Ceramics
232 Third Street - # B202A
Brooklyn, NY 11215
p: 917..561..2854
f: 718..246.0819
www.loisaronow.com
www.craftsofthedamned.blogspot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Leigh Whitaker
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 4:16 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Commercial Glazes and Stains, spin-off question
This has been an interesting thread.
I have a question. I have a great interest in learning how to make glazes.
I'm not sure why, except that I am a molecular biologist and my husband is
a chemist, so we are "experimental" types of people. Making glazes sounds
like a big happy experiment to me. I could keep a "lab" notebook! Joy!
What's keeping me back is #1 the start-up cost of all the ingredients and
equipment, #2 complete lack of knowledge and being overwhelmed with choices,
and
#3 not having my own kiln would make this a very sloooow process.
What would be the best way to start? Should I get a book (Mastering Cone 6
glazes looked good)? If I do should I focus on one particular
temperature?.
The studio I take my class at will do both cone 6 and cone 9 (ox and
redux).
Should I start with testing a base glaze, and then start adding stuff to
modify it? Should I get a software program? Or should I just stick with
commercial glazes for a while?
I guess another alternative would be to get a commercial base glaze and
experiment by adding stuff to it.
Thanks for any suggestion.
Leigh
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Paul Lewing on fri 19 jan 07
On Jan 19, 2007, at 1:16 PM, Leigh Whitaker wrote:
I have a question. I have a great interest in learning how to make
glazes.
I'm not sure why, except that I am a molecular biologist and my
husband is a
chemist, so we are "experimental" types of people. Making glazes
sounds
like a big happy experiment to me.
It is. It's one of the things that sucked me into ceramics 41 years
ago and continues to fascinate me.
What's keeping me back is #1 the start-up cost of all the ingredients
and
equipment,
That's not that much. A triple-beam balance is really the only piece
of equipment you need, and the chemicals are cheap. There have been
a number of threads on the subject of what a good assortment to start
with would be. Check the archives.
#2 complete lack of knowledge and being overwhelmed with choices, and
On the other hand you have a complete lack of knowledge about many
things, just like you once had a complete lack of knowledge about
molecular biology and chemistry. You have to start somewhere.
#3 not having my own kiln would make this a very sloooow process.
It does, and it also makes it hard to control the results, but there
are still a lot of things you can learn that way.
What would be the best way to start? Should I get a book (Mastering
Cone 6
glazes looked good)?
Yes, and that would be a good choice, although if you owned no
ceramics books at all, the first one I'd recommend would be Frank &
Janet Hamer's "Dictionary of Ceramic Terms & Techniques". It's got a
little about almost everything, and not a huge amount of depth in any
one area, but all you'll need for quite a while.
If I do should I focus on one particular temperature?.
Definitely. It's hard enough to learn at one temperature and
atmosphere much less two. There is some crossover, but stick to one.
The studio I take my class at will do both cone 6 and cone 9 (ox and
redux).
I'd go for cone 6 oxidation, just because you are more likely in the
future to get an electric kiln of your own than a gas kiln. But you
should really choose the one that you like the look of better. Don't
let anyone tell you that one is easier than the other. It ain't true.
Should I start with testing a base glaze, and then start adding
stuff to
modify it?
That's the best way to start.
Should I get a software program?
No. You're not ready for that yet.
Or should I just stick with
commercial glazes for a while?
I guess another alternative would be to get a commercial base glaze and
experiment by adding stuff to it.
What fun is that?
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 20 jan 07
Dear Leigh Whitaker,=20
As a Scientist, should you return to first principles when faced with =
this problem?
Sorry, I have assumed there is a "Problem"
Study MC6G. Also Cooper and Royle, "Glazes for the Studio Potter" and if =
possible Greg Daly, "Glazing and Glazing Techniques".
Then consider what is most important to you. Is it Glaze Research or =
Aesthetic Fulfilment ? When you have solved that conundrum get in touch.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Lois Ruben Aronow on sat 20 jan 07
Thanks John. I am proud to say that I have indeed learned an awful lot
about glaze chemistry by what language experts call "immersion". For the
record, my first glaze program was GlazeChem, which I still enjoy. Quick,
easy and cheap. As I learned more, I invested in Insight, which I love. It
was eye-opening to see the recipes side by side and compare, particularly
with test shards n hand. I am now testing Glazemaster, but I confess that I
don't use my software as much as I did. Usually just to find out why a
glaze is wonky - comparing the glaze to the tables is always the first thing
I do.
For anyone who is starting out making glaze, here's my story, for what it's
worth:
I started making glaze at the communal studio I had worked out of 7 years
ago. I traded glaze making for firing fees. I never made a glaze before,
and I approached it the same as baking, with one exception. I was totally
anal about taring the scale, even though the batches I was making were quite
large. I still am and I believe that trait has paid off in my "luck" with
consistency and attention. I am quite good at making glaze.
Then the sneaky part happened. I saw chemical names I hadn't heard of since
high school, and got myself a periodic table. Then I got myself a Hamer.
Read it Then a Chappell (which is more like "The Joy of Glaze making" -
tons of recipes). The Chappell gave so many recipes and inspiration (there
are no pictures, btw) that I easily saw endless possibility. I cared enough
about COE to find out what it was. I found out about glass formers,
melters, all that stuff. It was cool.
I later moved into my own first real studio and became blessed with 2 studio
mates who knew a lot more than I did, loved and embraced stains, and showed
me that stains were not evil. Through the famous testing, testing, testing
I learned that stains change the chemistry of your glaze and WHY.
The other "light bulb" moment I had was when I was beginning to use stains
in my beading glaze base. The purple wasn't working - FUGLY at best. Some
long timers here will remember I used the phrase "it spits like an
orangutan". I wrote to Ron, who so very generously tinkered with the recipe
- and returned one to me that had maybe half a percent less of one thing,
and half a percent more of something else. AND IT MADE A HUGE DIFFERENCE.
I sent him a mug with the results as a thank you.
This is really my very longwinded way of saying, john, that you are right,
and that you and Ron have been so generous in your knowledge.
And to remind everyone that testing shouldn't be a horrible, cumbersome
chore. Opening the kiln is still like seeing the tree on Christmas morning
for me, with all the gifts underneath. Even the ones I don't like.
...Lo
***
Lois Ruben Aronow Ceramics
232 Third Street - # B202A
Brooklyn, NY 11215
p: 917..561..2854
f: 718..246.0819
www.loisaronow.com
www.craftsofthedamned.blogspot.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of John
Hesselberth
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 8:16 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Commercial Glazes and Stains, spin-off question
On Jan 19, 2007, at 11:38 PM, Lois Ruben Aronow wrote:
> Ron & John will smack my for this, but I just can't deal with the
> minutiae of most glaze programs. Which is exactly the reason you
> might want one.
Hi Lois,
Lots of people start this way. What you don't realize is that a little bit
of that "minutiae" is actually getting absorbed through the pores of your
skin and sneaking its way up to your brain. In the middle of the night,
while you think you are asleep, those bits of minutiae are getting together
and talking. Pretty soon you will find yourself sneaking a peak at the
expansion coefficient or the Si/Al ratio, and then quickly turning away.
That's because those overnight brain conversations wanted to know. Then the
glances will become longer and longer and then pretty soon Ron and I and
other advocates of glaze calculation as a useful tool with have you in our
grasp.
There will be no escape from that point on.
Sweet dreams,
John
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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Chris Groat on sat 20 jan 07
You've already gotten a couple very nice responses, but I thought I'd
share my two cents because I was in your shoes three months ago. I'm a
biochemist. Last June I had a little over a year before grad school
started, so I decided to open a ceramics studio. When I got tired of
commercial glazes (three months ago), I decided to mix my own. The
Chemistry background really helps a lot. I started out reading MC6G and
when I finished that, I read it again, and maybe a again, and then I used
it as a reference. After that I read a text book about glaze chemistry.
Surprisingly, the glaze chemistry text did not help as much as MC6G,
however it did give me a deeper respect and understanding of the chemical
processes. Also, internet research can help as well, but don't believe
everything you read! Follow your instinct, don't be afraid to tinker
around a bit, and if you use the glaze on food... pay the small fee to
have it tested for leachates.
As far as the other problems are concerned... no kiln, the cost of
materials... I got nothin. Maybe just get a test kiln. And maybe figure
out which base you'd like to tinker with and only buy the materials you
need.
Chris
Lois Ruben Aronow on sat 20 jan 07
Oh - I forgot. For John, mainly.
I'm not proud of this, but I can't convert a molecular formula to the actual
literal chemicals. I might be able to tell if something needs more calcium,
for example, but I'm not able to tell where that calcium should come from.
I'm also not proud I that I am somewhat innumerate and have trouble with
algebra. Still.
When I look at a molecular glaze formula, all I think is "why don't they
just goddamn tell me what X is?!?"
If there is an idiots guide to this, please let me know.
John Hesselberth on sat 20 jan 07
On Jan 19, 2007, at 11:38 PM, Lois Ruben Aronow wrote:
> Ron & John will smack my for this, but I just can't deal
> with the minutiae of most glaze programs. Which is exactly the
> reason you
> might want one.
Hi Lois,
Lots of people start this way. What you don't realize is that a
little bit of that "minutiae" is actually getting absorbed through
the pores of your skin and sneaking its way up to your brain. In the
middle of the night, while you think you are asleep, those bits of
minutiae are getting together and talking. Pretty soon you will find
yourself sneaking a peak at the expansion coefficient or the Si/Al
ratio, and then quickly turning away. That's because those overnight
brain conversations wanted to know. Then the glances will become
longer and longer and then pretty soon Ron and I and other advocates
of glaze calculation as a useful tool with have you in our grasp.
There will be no escape from that point on.
Sweet dreams,
John
claystevslat on sat 20 jan 07
Leigh -- This is absolutely just an opinion ... but I find the
process of experimentation to be fascinating. If you start with
just one reliable (pre-tested) glaze recipe, which needn't be
too involved, you can get a wonderful feel for things by tinkering
with the concentration of various ingredients in the recipe.
Knowing chemistry means that the analysis will be easy for you to
do, and it'll be easier for you to deal with measurements and such.
I did my first experiments with an incredibly simple glaze (one
frit, kaolin, and silica) and did a series of tests with differing
amounts of silica and alumina until I could get a matte or a gloss
glaze pretty much at will, and raised the melter concentration until
I knew where a glaze wouldn't quite mature and where it'd get so
over-fluxed it'd start to run ... and then, by raising the alumina
further could get the glaze to stay on even though it was
overfluxed, and so on.
You will need a kiln (though a cheap, used, older kiln can be enough
to get started) and that is a significant cost. For testing, though,
you can get reasonable quantities of just a few materials (a
feldspar, a flux, silica, one or two clays, one opacifier, and one
or two colorants) at very low prices and make hundreds of tests from
a small initial investment.
And yes, there is a special joy to keeping a notebook.
Best wishes -- Steve Slatin
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Leigh Whitaker
wrote:
>
> This has been an interesting thread.
>
> I have a question. I have a great interest in learning how to
make glazes.
> I'm not sure why, except that I am a molecular biologist and my
husband is a
> chemist, so we are "experimental" types of people. Making glazes
sounds
> like a big happy experiment to me. I could keep a "lab"
notebook! Joy!
>
> What's keeping me back is #1 the start-up cost of all the
ingredients and
> equipment, #2 complete lack of knowledge and being overwhelmed
with choices, and
> #3 not having my own kiln would make this a very sloooow process.
sacredclay on sun 21 jan 07
John, dear, what the HAIL have you been drinking now? LOL Kathryn in NC-
--
wanted to know. Then the glances will become
> longer and longer and then pretty soon Ron and I and other advocates
> of glaze calculation as a useful tool with have you in our grasp.
> There will be no escape from that point on.
>
> Sweet dreams,
>
> John
>
>
Ron Roy on sun 21 jan 07
Hi Leigh,
Getting good at clay and glazes has a lot to do whith how much you
understand the role of the oxides in clays and glazes. The Potters
Dictionary of materals and Techniques by Frank and Janet Hamer is by far
the best. I think Mimi Obstler's "Out of the Earth into the Fire" is also
very good.
Get some calculation software so you can look at the fired glaze on a
molecular level.
Our book has all the molecular formulas for all the recipes so it is useful
in leaning to deal with glazes. There is also a list and alalysis of all
the materials we used - not a bad list of materials to start with.
RR
>This has been an interesting thread.
>
>I have a question. I have a great interest in learning how to make glazes.
>I'm not sure why, except that I am a molecular biologist and my husband is a
>chemist, so we are "experimental" types of people. Making glazes sounds
>like a big happy experiment to me. I could keep a "lab" notebook! Joy!
>
>What's keeping me back is #1 the start-up cost of all the ingredients and
>equipment, #2 complete lack of knowledge and being overwhelmed with
>choices, and
> #3 not having my own kiln would make this a very sloooow process.
>
>What would be the best way to start? Should I get a book (Mastering Cone 6
>glazes looked good)? If I do should I focus on one particular temperature?.
>The studio I take my class at will do both cone 6 and cone 9 (ox and redux).
> Should I start with testing a base glaze, and then start adding stuff to
>modify it? Should I get a software program? Or should I just stick with
>commercial glazes for a while?
>
>I guess another alternative would be to get a commercial base glaze and
>experiment by adding stuff to it.
>
>Thanks for any suggestion.
>
>Leigh
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
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