Lili Krakowski on mon 5 mar 07
The argument I repeatedly present, and which, as often, is scoffed at, is
this.
Lithium is used a medication for people with bipolar disorder. It is not a
fun medication, small amounts matter a great deal, and the effects are
serious.
The reason I think lithium should not be in communal studios at all, and
should not be an ingredient in published recipes, and like that, is simply
that "we" have no control over what happens. If lithium is spilled on a
counter, or on a floor in a classroom, or similar, and not cleaned up
totally and right away, a person on lithium medication might ingest some
with ill effect. As Monona Rossol says in her book, "even milligram amounts
can cause effects."
People do NOT attach warnings when they publish recipes. The catalogs do
not when they list materials. So there is some wonderful bipolar person
out there who is on lithium and has not been warned about the studio. For
better or worse teachers do not ask, cannot ask students what meds they are
on. I DO know that after one of my warnings a ClayArter on lithium wrote me
to say that my warning had raised ????, the prescribing MD been consulted,
and MD agreed with me. Maybe the magazines that publish recipes and the
supplier catalogs WOULD add warnings. Maybe teachers will warn their
classes and post signs if they keep lithium around.
Nor do I know how risky Spodumene and such are...Will write Monona for
opinion...
I have no idea or knowledge of how/if/when lithium can leach from an
unstable glaze. I will avoid jokes about unstable glazes and unstable
users....because I think the whole problem too serious.
"We" (hello there Bonnie Staffel!) remember when antimony, lead, barium were
handled in the studio, with our bare hands, and sans masks. We remember
when fumes of this or that type were just considered harmless smoke...."We"
now have learned, from the experience of others. And everyone is better off
for it.
It seems to me that one of the uses of knowledge is to effect beneficial
change.
And--by the way. It is strontium that is used instead of barium. Not
lithium.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Lee Love on tue 6 mar 07
On 3/6/07, sacredclay wrote:
> way or another. How is spodumene affective to our conditions? Thanks
> you so much for your admonitions. Warmly, Kathryn in NC where it was
> simply beautiful today!
Kathryn,
The big difference between the two is that lithium carbonate
is water soluable and spodumene isn't. Please read Edouard below on
the scientific/medical literature related to lithium:
Edouard Bastarache on fri 15 dec 00
Hello all,
a friend and pharmacist recently did a search for me
on the subject of lithium intoxication and the use of lithium carbonate
fluxed glazes, and there is no such thing as a lithium intoxication case
from
using this type of wares.
I just finished doing a search in different databases we use in
occupational medicine and there is no such thing as a case of
lithium intoxication among workers and/or potters using lithium carbonate.
As for users of the drug, the toxic and therapeutic blood levels are
very close; any activity leading to loosing much body water may switch a
patient taking lithium carbonate form the therapeutic to the toxic zone,
as in sweating in the melting departments of a steel mills.
Also many anti-inflammatory drugs raise the lithium blood levels
of patients and may cause the intoxication. I saw one case 2 years
ago. Motrin(Advil) is one of the possible offenders, it is important
to remember this name because it may be sold without a prescription.
So, as far as i am concerned, i am much more afraid of these situations
than picking up a few atoms of lithium from a pot covered by a
lithium-containing glaze; more specially if the amount used is
low, the formula is well
balanced and the pots are high-fired.
Later,
Edouard BastaracheM.D. (Occupational & Environmental Medicine)
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
Henry David Thoreau
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
claystevslat on tue 6 mar 07
The lithium carbonate in a potter's supplies is a tiny bit less pure
but otherwise identical to Eskalith or one of the other lithiums
generally used as a treatment for bipolar disorder (lithium citrare
is also sometimes used). There are other lithium compounds used for
their psychotropic effects.
The 'standard' dosage for lithium varies by body weight but tends to
be 600 - 1200 mg per day. It takes days and days to build up enough
in the bloodstream to have therapeutic effect. The problem with it
is that the toxic level is not hugely higher than the therapeutic
level.
Lithium carbonate is soluble in water, and I suspect that much of
its effect can be attributed to this characteristic. Once in
solution, it can pass over some of the tissue barriers in the body.
This also means that your body can process, and excrete it fairly
easily.
I would not expect the lithium in spodumene to have the same
characteristic. I would expect that its lower solubility would make
it relatively non-toxic.
Lili's counsel on materials handling is wise, whatever the risk
level of the material involved. My personal suspicion is that lung
disease caused by exposure to various types of dust is responsible
for more potters' deaths than any specific toxicity, but think about
the dropped half-teaspoon of whatever on your floor or workspace --
plain clay is dangerous if it's dry and you're stepping on it.
Some of our fluxes are relatively non-toxic (sodium, potassium,
calcium). Some are pretty bad and persistent (lead). Nothing
substitutes for caution in handling materials. I use an R-100 mask
for pretty much everything that involves opening a bag of dry
material. And whenever the weather permits, I work with an open
window or outside, where the material dust will disperse rapidly.
-- Steve S
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, sacredclay wrote:
>
> Sweet Lili, I have alot of respect for your knowledge as they
seem so
> formidable. So, just to make sure I understand this, lithium
carbonate
> is pretty much the same ingredients used in the lithium
medications for
> bipolars? How can it afffects those who don't or is unwared of the
> predilections to suffer from it? I didn't realized that this
lithium
> was also used in medications and all others are also connectd in
some
> way or another. How is spodumene affective to our conditions?
Thanks
> you so much for your admonitions. Warmly, Kathryn in NC where it
was
sacredclay on tue 6 mar 07
Sweet Lili, I have alot of respect for your knowledge as they seem so
formidable. So, just to make sure I understand this, lithium carbonate
is pretty much the same ingredients used in the lithium medications for
bipolars? How can it afffects those who don't or is unwared of the
predilections to suffer from it? I didn't realized that this lithium
was also used in medications and all others are also connectd in some
way or another. How is spodumene affective to our conditions? Thanks
you so much for your admonitions. Warmly, Kathryn in NC where it was
simply beautiful today!
>
> Lithium is used a medication for people with bipolar disorder. It is
not a
> fun medication, small amounts matter a great deal, and the effects are
> serious.
>
>
Ron Roy on wed 7 mar 07
Seems to me he is saying use a durable glaze with not much lithium in as a
liner glaze - seems a sensible approach to me.
The biggest problem we have is not being aware of which of our glazes is
durable and which are capable of leaching know poisonous elements into
food.
I remember someone here on ClayArt saying they had glazes with lithium carb
in them - and her cats had been drinking out of those buckets. One died and
the other was having convulsions.
We also need to keep in mind - when dealing with poisons - body weight is
crucial - just keep that in mind and think of how much it would take to
affect a one pound fetus.
> Hello all,
>
> a friend and pharmacist recently did a search for me
> on the subject of lithium intoxication and the use of lithium carbonate
> fluxed glazes, and there is no such thing as a lithium intoxication case
> from
> using this type of wares.
> I just finished doing a search in different databases we use in
> occupational medicine and there is no such thing as a case of
> lithium intoxication among workers and/or potters using lithium carbonate.
>
> As for users of the drug, the toxic and therapeutic blood levels are
> very close; any activity leading to loosing much body water may switch a
> patient taking lithium carbonate form the therapeutic to the toxic zone,
> as in sweating in the melting departments of a steel mills.
>
> Also many anti-inflammatory drugs raise the lithium blood levels
>of patients and may cause the intoxication. I saw one case 2 years
>ago. Motrin(Advil) is one of the possible offenders, it is important
>to remember this name because it may be sold without a prescription.
>
> So, as far as i am concerned, i am much more afraid of these situations
> than picking up a few atoms of lithium from a pot covered by a
> lithium-containing glaze; more specially if the amount used is
>low, the formula is well
> balanced and the pots are high-fired.
>
>
> Later,
>
>
> Edouard BastaracheM.D. (Occupational & Environmental Medicine)
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
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