Dan Mitchell on sat 24 mar 07
Hello all
I am a ceramic artist and have been asked to help out with a landscaping job
of what will eventually become an art museum. The plan is to create mosaics
in the sidewalk/pathway that will lead you around the house through the
different sculpture garden areas.
What I need to know is, will the ceramic tile hold up to the foot traffic?
And more importantly will it resist the freeze thaw cycles that we go
through hear in Utah. I would be using high fired stoneware or porcelain to
make the tiles and they would be glazed, now assuming that the glaze is a
proper fit and has no crazing I believe that they would hold up just as well
or better than stones, glass, and metal. The problem though is that I need
proof that they will.
so can any one point me to examples, or has experience in the matter, I
would greatly appreciate hearing what you have to say.
Thanks, Dan Mitchell
Nancy on sat 24 mar 07
Dan
In my past experience with making stepping stones and using ceramic
pieces....they don't fair well in the freeze and thaw conditions. Many
pieces popped out leaving holes...some broke leaving shards. I found
the stones, metal and glass I used held up much better. I don't know if
it was because water was still absorbed into the ceramic pieces or
something else. They were fired to cone 8 but not completely glazed on
all sides as they were fired in tile setters.
I am not, in anyway and expert on this, just sharing my experience in
the past. I am located in upstate NY...lots of freezing and thawing ....
Nancy
www.hilltoppottery.com
Dan Mitchell wrote:
> Hello all
>
> I am a ceramic artist and have been asked to help out with a landscaping job
> of what will eventually become an art museum. The plan is to create mosaics
> in the sidewalk/pathway that will lead you around the house through the
> different sculpture garden areas.
>
> What I need to know is, will the ceramic tile hold up to the foot traffic?
> And more importantly will it resist the freeze thaw cycles that we go
> through hear in Utah. I would be using high fired stoneware or porcelain to
> make the tiles and they would be glazed, now assuming that the glaze is a
> proper fit and has no crazing I believe that they would hold up just as well
> or better than stones, glass, and metal. The problem though is that I need
> proof that they will.
>
> so can any one point me to examples, or has experience in the matter, I
> would greatly appreciate hearing what you have to say.
>
> Thanks, Dan Mitchell
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Megan Mason on sat 24 mar 07
In a message dated 3/24/2007 3:45:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
danjoymitchell@JUNO.COM writes:
Dan Mitchell
Dear Dan,
I might suggest you approach the local brick company/manufacturer and ask to
carve or stamp some brick clay formed into tiles and test some glazes on
them that will go on top of their normal loads thru the firings there?Our
brick companies are usually quite cooperative on such projects.
We have a number of walks with commemorative bricks bought by patrons
with names they choose to put on them for a sizable contribution to the zoo or
museum.The bricks they used have survived nicely but our freezing weather is
sporadic and of short duration,usually, and certainly not to the
temperature you'd experience there. Perhaps put some glazed samples in your freezer
then drop them into boiling water,carefully, to give a home version of
thermal shock test would be revealing?
I would use the glazed ones on the edges as a decorative border as they
might cause falling if the surface were slippery.[Liability and such.]
Good luck,
Meg
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iglasgo on sun 25 mar 07
Dan,
Something to think about, if you are not already familiar with this
requirement:
I hate to bring up the "L" word, but... ADA and building codes
generally require floor tile installed in public places to be
ASTM-certified for slip resistance by the manufacturer. Slip
resistance is especially important in areas that may be exposed to water.
This may not be a requirement of your local building code in
installing walkway tiles in a private residence. But even if it's not,
it's still very important to protect yourself from personal liability
for slip and fall suits and ADA suits. As soon as you have members of
the public walking on that tile, your potential liability skyrockets.
If you want to get your tiles certified for slip-resistance, have them
tested under the ASTM C-1028 Static Coefficient of Friction test
procedure. The Tile Council of America offers this testing for $300 at
http://www.tileusa.com/tstprice.html , or it may be less expensive
elsewhere. I can tell you ahead of time that a glossy glaze will
probably fail the test. If it is a smooth, glossy glaze it will almost
definitely fail. A semi-gloss with sand embedded in it would be more
likely to pass.
Incidentally, TCA offers other ASTM tests too, for things such as
freeze-thaw durability and crazing resistance. Some of these tests can
be duplicated at home: You can look up the ASTM manual for that
specific test and follow the procedure yourself.
Hope this helps.
-Ivy G.
tilemaker
can't quite shake that architect thing
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Dan Mitchell wrote:
>
> Hello all
>
> I am a ceramic artist and have been asked to help out with a
landscaping job
> of what will eventually become an art museum. The plan is to create
mosaics
> in the sidewalk/pathway that will lead you around the house through the
> different sculpture garden areas.
>
> What I need to know is, will the ceramic tile hold up to the foot
traffic?
> And more importantly will it resist the freeze thaw cycles that we go
> through hear in Utah. I would be using high fired stoneware or
porcelain to
> make the tiles and they would be glazed, now assuming that the glaze
is a
> proper fit and has no crazing I believe that they would hold up just
as well
> or better than stones, glass, and metal. The problem though is that
I need
> proof that they will.
>
> so can any one point me to examples, or has experience in the matter, I
> would greatly appreciate hearing what you have to say.
>
> Thanks, Dan Mitchell
>
>
___________________________________________________________________________=
___
> Send postings to clayart@...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@...
>
stephani stephenson on mon 26 mar 07
Hi Dan
couple of things to think about
technical issues are crucial when you make tile for flooring , especially outdoors, as opposed to wall tile
what size will your tile pieces be?
('mosaic' often indicates pieces smaller than 1" square.)
the bigger the pieces, the more they will have to bear the load of foot traffic, as individual tiles. generally paver tiles made from moist clay were made thicker, on the order of 3/4" to 1" thick to do this.
smaller tiles will not have to be structurally as strong, as the weight/load of traffic will be distributed over several of them at a time.
then ,and in all cases , the bedding/setting , is of prime importance. in fact the
bedding/setting /installation is always of prime importance in the success, durability and longetivity of flooring. will the tiles be set in thinset or will they be bedded as garden pavers?
Factors such as slope, drainage, substrate etc.are important so do homeowrk on that.
, in addition to meeting the demand of glaze fit, freeze /thaw durability, you need to consider slip resistance when dry or wet. the smaller the pieces, the more likely the grout
will factor into slip resistance...but this is HUGE , in a public setting, and there are ASTM standards for this, which a previous post alluded to . check out the site for Tile council of America, as they , at least at one point, were trying to make testing more affordable for smaller studios.
when i had a similar project i opted to put colorant in the clay, as opposed to
glazed tile. i had some buckets of old stain on hand , which helped on affordabillity for some of the colors, but i also managed to come up with a decent pallet by using different clays as colorants, using variations of iron, and also using very strong oxides and stains which only required one quarter of one percent to one percent added to the clay body,which kept the cost down somewhat. Even so , it still approached 30 cents per pound for the clay in some cases. however, in this way i could still use the grog in the claybody surface to
help with slip resistance.
another option would be to look at something like a commercial quarry tile, which can be glazed and cut...these bodies are quite strong and vitreous, thay take glazes beautifully. the only issue then would be with regard to your glazes and whether they would pass muster.
i would definitely consult with knowledgeable tile setters . knowing about their perspective will help you design and successfully complete the project, if you take it on. in a public place, learn about the requirements, and factor in costs for testing, if this is a major walkway, especially.
the last thing i'll say is opinion...but i think there is a reason tiled wlakways are more popular in dry climates! aside from the obvious, here is what i noticed when i made pavers and was testing them....
the vitreous ones, because they did NOT absorb water, caused the water to stay on the surface, which actually made them MORE prone to slick surface problems. inthis case the slope and structure is very very important because the water will need to RUN off.
the NON - VITREOUS ones were actually beautiful to behold because , when it rained the pavers absorbed water, thus they stayed dry. the water disappeared into the SUBSTRATE, whcih was designed for drainage. the other thing i noticed was that ,even when there was not a drainage substrate, the non nitreous pavers absorbed water, then when the sun came out the water evaporated back out...so they made a perfect surface which was never slippery, even for fairly good rains..so for some climates these tiles would be perfect. of course ,in every climate you have to decide. i was noticing in Louisville, they had cut stone roads in some of the old parts of town, and brick too.
this type of project is one of the most challenging , technically, for the tilemaker.
best wishes
Stephani Stephenson
steph@revivaltileworks.com
Dan wrote:
"Hello all
I am a ceramic artist and have been asked to help out with a landscaping job of what will eventually become an art museum. The plan is to create mosaics in the sidewalk/pathway that will lead you around the house through the different sculpture garden areas."
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stephani stephenson on mon 26 mar 07
Dan
one thing i negelcted in the last post i wrote...when i was mentioning strength and thickness, i was referring generally to lower-mid range fired pavers with a good % of grog.. the old traditional pavers.stoneware, porcelain, issues are different...forming method affect it too as does claybody in general...there are so many variables with regard to strength...i am still learning too! ...also important , especially with regard to outdors is the adhesive or mortar..typical thinset is better, i understand with tiles that are not vitreous...other adhesives are used with porcelain, stone, glass, etc....so an hour or two with a knowledgeable setter.....priceless!
Stephani
grabbing a computer minute
doing back to back firings, also pressing tile for a mural and laying out two fireplaces...and ...taxes, did anyone say taxes?
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Janet Starr on thu 29 mar 07
Dan,
I know it's not as interesting to use commercial tile rather than make your
own, but if you are concerned about freeze/thaw and slip resistance and
lawsuits on a floor in a public setting, you could use commercial floor tile
that is rated for outdoors, break it up and make mosaics from that. Of
course, you would also need to consult with a professional tile setter or
store as to how to install them and what products would last.
Janet Starr
--
Janet Starr
www.craftsmantiles.com
www.featuretile.com
featuretile@gmail.com
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