Tom at Hutchtel.net on sun 25 mar 07
Hey gang.....I have a strong suspicion that Dayton is a phishing scheme.
Enough data to get you interested, enough nastiness to get you to give him
your email address. I think a double delete is in order.
Tom Wirt
Dayton Grant on sun 25 mar 07
(For those of you that 'havent' seen the the video (which is now available
on DVD) that Im referring to, e-mail me directly and Ill send you one for
ten bucks)
Hello, everyone its 'me', Dayton J. Grant, student of Micheal J. Frimkess,
dont you remember me, the one who sent you the 'dry clay throwing' video, I
havent seen (did I miss it perhaps , is it in the archives ?) a formal
review of the video from Mel, Vince, or any of the other pros and or
teachers that I had expected would share their 'professional opinions' of
the video with me and the other people on the list, I really want to know,
1) How do you 'feel' about the skill of dry throwing/ have you ever seen it
before/ can 'you' do it ?
2) Do you personally know of anyone in this country that 'has' or 'teaches'
this skill ? 'do tell'
3) Do you see any greater facilty/efficiency afforded to a wheel thrower by
this method ?
4) Do you think the skill should be part of all certificate/degree programs,
why/why not?
5) Do you have any specific requests for the next video in the series ?
(which will not be free)
I felt weird about posting here for awhile because, after all the time
I spent writing valuable (in my opinion) infomation to share freely, someone
on the list repeatedly gave the description of a certain glaze color as
"nigger-brown" which really dissapointed and offended me, and I had to
wonder,"Who 'are' these people ?" that they would publish such a post and
that after it was posted, twice , nobody even 'mentioned' it, and so I wasnt
very enthusiastic about sharing anymore, I was beginning to feel like my
work here (information ,commentary,videos) was like 'pearls to swine' or
something, anyways, Im over it, Im still interested in what is said here and
I shouldnt let something like that prevent me from interacting with the
mostly beautiful and gracious personalities that I have come to appreciate
on this list, I was reading something by Phil, (which I always do because I
just like his writing) that was an answer to a post from Vince, on the
subject of 'kiln draft', or 'burner/chimney behavior' which happens to be
one of my 'favorite' subjects, and I ran across the term "secondary air",
which originated with Micheal Frimkess as a term of specific nomenclature
relating to the function of certain adjustable parts of his superlative,
unsurpassed and unique 'fast fire kiln' (which has a firing chamber of four
cubic feet and reaches cone^10 in fifty five minutes on five bucks worth of
gas) and was explained in detail, by me, on this list, several years ago,
and with that I would like to say emphatically "yes", a 'very 'substantial'
vaccum' is created in the firing chamber of the most efficient kilns, and it
has to do very clearly with 'the air coming into the chamber between the top
of the burners and the bottom of the kiln' or more concisely 'the
'secondary' air', the 'primary' air being that air which comes through the
fuel/air mix adjustment on the bottom of the burner itself. I dont even read
the list that much anymore , I just thought I would drive by and 'moon'
everyone (except Ms. Krakowski and the 'proper' folks) but all you 'other'
knuckleheads, Im putting you on notice, Im 'really' going pro 'this' time,
Micheal Frimkess has taught me the 'real' Kung Fu and I shall bring honor to
the dojo, "hiiii-ya! muddabuggas"
Rumplestiltskin,
King Elf.
_________________________________________________________________
5.5%* 30 year fixed mortgage rate. Good credit refinance. Up to 5 free
quotes - *Terms
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5d&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=910
Lois Ruben Aronow on sun 25 mar 07
>>(For those of you that 'havent' seen the the video (which is now =
available
on DVD) that Im referring to, e-mail me directly and Ill send you one =
for
ten bucks)
Please keep this sort of advertising off of the list. If you want a
critique of your video, people shouldn't have to for the privilege of
helping you advance your business.
>>I felt weird about posting here for awhile because, after all the time =
I
spent writing valuable (in my opinion) infomation to share freely, =
someone
on the list repeatedly gave the description of a certain glaze color as
"nigger-brown" which really dissapointed and offended me, and I had to
wonder,"Who 'are' these people ?"=20
Wow - I don't even know how to respond to this. Perhaps you should go =
back
to lurking, rather than making bold-faced accusations. One minute =
you're
asking for help; the next you are naming names and taking it very =
personally
that your post wasn't responded to in the way you would have liked.
>> I was beginning to feel like my work here (information
,commentary,videos) was like 'pearls to swine' or something, anyways, Im
over it,=20
It doesn't sound like it.
>> I just thought I would drive by and 'moon'everyone (except Ms. =
Krakowski
and the 'proper' folks) but all you 'other'
knuckleheads, Im putting you on notice, Im 'really' going pro 'this' =
time,
Micheal Frimkess has taught me the 'real' Kung Fu and I shall bring =
honor to
the dojo, "hiiii-ya! muddabuggas"
Thanks for the privilege. You certainly have shown your ass for all to =
see.
Douch=E9!
...Lo
***
Lois Aronow Ceramics =20
Brooklyn, NY 11215
www.loisaronow.com
www.craftsofthedamned.blogspot.com
=20
Vince Pitelka on sun 25 mar 07
My goodness Dayton, what an incredibly obnoxious post. Do you really want
to be part of Clayart? It doesn't sound like it.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Carl Finch on mon 26 mar 07
At 05:36 PM 3/25/2007, claystevslat wrote:
>Lois --
>I could be wrong, but I believe Mr. Dayton may be an exemplar
>of the species "Trollus Internetus."
For those of you who doubt Dayton Grant's sincerity, I suggest you
simply visit his web site and view one or more of his (free) video
throwing demonstrations there.
http://www.geocities.com/sunstone37@sbcglobal.net/
All should become clear.
For as they say in Ghana:
"Faa yalo dzwaa gbe."
(The one who fetches the water is the one who is likely to
break the pot.)
--Carl
Gerald O'Sullivan on mon 26 mar 07
Hi Clayarters
This guy is trying to provoke you into connecting to a web-site offering
cheap mortgages. More spam!
Cheers
Gerald
On Sun, 2007-03-25 at 03:55 +0000, Dayton Grant wrote:
> (For those of you that 'havent' seen the the video (which is now available
> on DVD) that Im referring to, e-mail me directly and Ill send you one for
> ten bucks)
>
> Hello, everyone its 'me', Dayton J. Grant, student of Micheal J. Frimkess,
> dont you remember me, the one who sent you the 'dry clay throwing' video, I
> havent seen (did I miss it perhaps , is it in the archives ?) a formal
> review of the video from Mel, Vince, or any of the other pros and or
> teachers that I had expected would share their 'professional opinions' of
> the video with me and the other people on the list, I really want to know,
> 1) How do you 'feel' about the skill of dry throwing/ have you ever seen it
> before/ can 'you' do it ?
> 2) Do you personally know of anyone in this country that 'has' or 'teaches'
> this skill ? 'do tell'
> 3) Do you see any greater facilty/efficiency afforded to a wheel thrower by
> this method ?
> 4) Do you think the skill should be part of all certificate/degree programs,
> why/why not?
> 5) Do you have any specific requests for the next video in the series ?
> (which will not be free)
> I felt weird about posting here for awhile because, after all the time
> I spent writing valuable (in my opinion) infomation to share freely, someone
> on the list repeatedly gave the description of a certain glaze color as
> "nigger-brown" which really dissapointed and offended me, and I had to
> wonder,"Who 'are' these people ?" that they would publish such a post and
> that after it was posted, twice , nobody even 'mentioned' it, and so I wasnt
> very enthusiastic about sharing anymore, I was beginning to feel like my
> work here (information ,commentary,videos) was like 'pearls to swine' or
> something, anyways, Im over it, Im still interested in what is said here and
> I shouldnt let something like that prevent me from interacting with the
> mostly beautiful and gracious personalities that I have come to appreciate
> on this list, I was reading something by Phil, (which I always do because I
> just like his writing) that was an answer to a post from Vince, on the
> subject of 'kiln draft', or 'burner/chimney behavior' which happens to be
> one of my 'favorite' subjects, and I ran across the term "secondary air",
> which originated with Micheal Frimkess as a term of specific nomenclature
> relating to the function of certain adjustable parts of his superlative,
> unsurpassed and unique 'fast fire kiln' (which has a firing chamber of four
> cubic feet and reaches cone^10 in fifty five minutes on five bucks worth of
> gas) and was explained in detail, by me, on this list, several years ago,
> and with that I would like to say emphatically "yes", a 'very 'substantial'
> vaccum' is created in the firing chamber of the most efficient kilns, and it
> has to do very clearly with 'the air coming into the chamber between the top
> of the burners and the bottom of the kiln' or more concisely 'the
> 'secondary' air', the 'primary' air being that air which comes through the
> fuel/air mix adjustment on the bottom of the burner itself. I dont even read
> the list that much anymore , I just thought I would drive by and 'moon'
> everyone (except Ms. Krakowski and the 'proper' folks) but all you 'other'
> knuckleheads, Im putting you on notice, Im 'really' going pro 'this' time,
> Micheal Frimkess has taught me the 'real' Kung Fu and I shall bring honor to
> the dojo, "hiiii-ya! muddabuggas"
> Rumplestiltskin,
> King Elf.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> 5.5%* 30 year fixed mortgage rate. Good credit refinance. Up to 5 free
> quotes - *Terms
> https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5d&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=910
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Eric Hansen on mon 26 mar 07
Vince: Having contributed my own obnoxious posts in
the past and still coming back for more I am not sure
that inclusion/exclusion & either/or's are really
effective with the likes of Dayton or myself. It's too
easy to simply lurk from the archives:
http://lsv.ceramics.org/archivedata/clayart.html
Throwing without water? What is missing in you
"communique" is WHY one would do it, WHY one would
want to do it, or WHY would anyone care? What
difference could it possibly make except for the
satisfaction that one has accomplished something that
while others may have thought of it, no one can really
find a reason to do? There are more important ways to
spend time, like. say, making pots?
And as far as "fast fire" if you are setting on a 15
cu. FT. gas main you can fire as fast as you want. So
what exactly is your point?
My first reaction was that perhaps this "Mr Frimkess"
is your personal imaginary friend. A quick internet
search reveals that, no, Mr. Frimkess is indeed a real
and accomplished artist, a former student of Voulkos,
who is published, collected, and acknowledged. All I
can find out about you, however, Dayton, is that you
send cranky messages to ClayArt. Are you a potter
then? Can you direct me to see images of your work,
similar to those I have easily located by Frimkess?
How about your kiln building? Nothing found on that
one, either. Anxiously awaiting your "acknowledgement"
& reply.
Sincerely Yours,
H A M B O N E
--- Vince Pitelka wrote:
> My goodness Dayton, what an incredibly obnoxious
> post. Do you really want
> to be part of Clayart? It doesn't sound like it.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee
> Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
claystevslat on mon 26 mar 07
Lois --
I could be wrong, but I believe Mr. Dayton may be an exemplar
of the species "Trollus Internetus." He seems to post very
little, often it's somewhat bizarre, and if you try to follow
his objection by reference to the offensive phrase he
stated, it last appeared (at least according to the archive
search) in 2001.
And as far as his DVD, there's no previous reference I could
find. He frequently refers to M. Frimkess, who threw using
gloves with metal fingertips (& incredibly stiff, dry clay).
Interesting thought, but I don't know that it'd be useful
for too many people. I sort of put it in the life's-too=3Dshort
category.
-- Steve S
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Lois Ruben Aronow wrote:
>
> >>(For those of you that 'havent' seen the the video (which is now
available
> on DVD) that Im referring to, e-mail me directly and Ill send you
one for
> ten bucks)
Taylor Hendrix on tue 27 mar 07
Watching those videos made my wrists hurt, sincerity or no. If it
takes you three minutes to open up, what the hell? Of course I'm just
a goof ball.
As they say in the Hendrix household,
"Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back."
Taylor, in Rockport TX
On 3/26/07, Carl Finch wrote:
...> For those of you who doubt Dayton Grant's sincerity, I suggest you
> simply visit his web site and view one or more of his (free) video
..
claystevslat on tue 27 mar 07
Carl --
You're right -- I followed the link, and Mr. Grant's video does
show him throwing a small vase with little (not no) water.
The technique appears to be extremely slow (more than half an
hour to throw a small vase), dependent on one's willingness to pin
off any bit that goes off center, and the result appears
unexceptional. In short, totally undeserving of Grant's
self-serving post.
In case I went too far, though, I gladly withdraw the charge
of trollism. For the time being, though, I will substitute for
it a charge of exaggerating significance with a side order of
mind-numbing boredom.
-- Steve S.
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Carl Finch wrote:
> For those of you who doubt Dayton Grant's sincerity, I suggest you
> simply visit his web site and view one or more of his (free) video
> throwing demonstrations there.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/sunstone37@.../
>
> All should become clear.
>
> For as they say in Ghana:
>
> "Faa yalo dzwaa gbe."
> (The one who fetches the water is the one who is likely to
> break the pot.)
Carl Finch on tue 27 mar 07
At 08:55 PM 3/24/2007, Dayton Grant wrote:
>(For those of you that 'havent' seen the the video (which is now available
>on DVD) that Im referring to, e-mail me directly and Ill send you one for
>ten bucks)
>
>Hello, everyone its 'me', Dayton J. Grant, student of Micheal J. Frimkess,
>dont you remember me, the one who sent you the 'dry clay throwing' video, I
>havent seen (did I miss it perhaps , is it in the archives ?)
If I understand you correctly, you are saying you sent a video to Clayart.
And by that I assume you included it as an attachment to a posted message.
Well Dayton, that just won't work! Any attached files (videos, still
images, etc.)
are automatically stripped off (deleted) by the system as they are received!
This is done to save Clayart subscribers on low-speed dial-up connections
from being 'drowned' by huge incoming message attachments.
That might explain why no one gave you any feedback on your video.
--Carl
in Medford, Oregon
Maurice Weitman on tue 27 mar 07
Greetings, Dayton and other clayarters,
What a fascinating set of messages to clayart!
There may well be an unobvious subtext to what's been written by
Dayton and others about him and his writings, but taken on its face,
and after having read through some of the related archived messages,
I offer the following observations:
Dayton Grant seems to be sincere in his devotion to his mentor and to
that which he learned from him. He seems to truly believe in his
methods and their value to others. He understandably took offense at
offensive language.
I was not reading clayart in 2001 when Janet K. made her unfortunate
mention of her mother's likely use of "nigger brown" to describe a
certain color. It was, indeed, an inappropriate epithet, and I tend
to give Janet the benefit of the doubt, being a Brit and all, but
still... And Dayton seems to be correct that nobody mentioned or
complained about her use of the word. I can't say whether I would
have complained, on- or off-list, but I hope I would have.
Dayton also wrote to clayart on 10/10/04:
"I really enjoy writing crazy stuff on this list
as well as reading all the stuff that everyone else writes
just to fill in anyone who would care to know, during my
absence i looked back over the things
that i had written on the list before
and some of it is 'utter crapola' but so0me
of it was 'kinda' good in retrospect "
So, Dayton, it should probably come as no surprise that some folks
might not take your words all that seriously, or view your opinions
that highly. I will now admit that there are a dozen or so clayart
members whose messages I never see; they go straight to my trash
bucket. You are not among them, and I hope you don't join them
You have an interesting history on the list, colored by sporadic
participation, and seem to have developed a reputation for some of
those things you've written; some of it apparently deserved, even
without your own self-admission/criticism. It's not always obvious
when we write something, especially to a public list, that what we
write will endure longer than we'd like. It makes sense, I've found,
to give ones self a time-out before sending something at all
confrontational or emotionally charged.
About your videos, well, I don't know in what manner you asked for
feedback from "Mel, Vince, or any of the other pros and or teachers,"
but even if you asked for it, certainly you should agree that nobody
OWES you a review, formal or otherwise. Many folks on clayart are
generous with their time and information, but none of this is owed.
Others have called you a troll, and/or taken offense of your
self-promotion, selling tactics. I don't. I haven't seen anyone
complaining about others selling their tools or DVDs and would think
you have the right to mention your videos. In defense of many of the
others who do "advertise" their stuff, subtly or not, they often have
a long history of "giving" to the list, and are respected for their
contributions and skills.
About your videos... if the clips I saw are representative of the
full versions... I respectfully suggest that you don't quit your day
job. Make pots, not videos. Even if there was terrific information
on them, I must say that your production values are poor. Not
inviting. If you believe that your techniques and methods are worth
the time for potters to spend their money and time to watch, you
ought to put more of your time and efforts into producing a more
watchable product.
Good luck, Dayton, and welcome back to clayart. I hope you stick around.
Regards,
Maurice, whose heart is still in Berkeley (and Brooklyn), and whose
mind is still crackling from the joys and inspirations gained in
Lewavul. I'm happy to have met and spent a bit of time with some
clayarters (and Elvis impersonators) with whom I'd only corresponded
in email, and very happy to have gotten to spend lots of fun and
enriching time with a few longer-term claybuds.
I had a great time getting to know and laughing with Sandy Miller,
Dolita, and Richard Aerni, really enjoyed his two-day workshop, and
am in awe of the hostliness and efforts put forth by Dolita, her
family, and many other L'villians... they made this NCECA the warmest
ever. Special thanks to the mugettes who did a fabulous job of
turning chaos into an orderly, exciting experience for the 200 or so
participants. And speaking of mugs... I scored a few beauts!!! It's
an embarrassment of riches trying to decide whether to enjoy my
morning's cap from Sandy's or Mark's (with the perfectly placed thumb
rest/stop/frobbie).
Who cares that I got home 14 hours later than I should have, or that
my luggage took another 2 or 3 days to reach me? It was a great
experience. Thanks to Mel and all of you who made it so worthwhile.
(And making it somewhat easier to be home -- aside from the obvious
-- you should see the blossoms on our cherry, fig, Asian pear, and
nectarine trees! The bees are even around, and the Robins are
singin' up a storm, dawn and dusk. We also have dozens of
wildflowers around: among my favorites: shooting stars, mission
bells, and purple and salmon larkspur. Our creek is still flowing
lightly, the hills are still green, and the higher temps and longer
days are making winter a memory. I wish the same for you all.
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