John Baymore on tue 6 aug 96
On 8-3 Monona wrote, in part:
.....I'd also incorporate the business and investigate the cost of
liability insurance. This is smart for any business. Murphy was an optimist.
........
----------------------------------------------------
For those looking for insurance for their pottery business, in researching it
for renewal two years ago I found that I could not do better than the insurance
through American Phoenix as part of the American Craft Assocation. It is quite
cheap, they are used to a craftspersons "unique" situation, and you can
customize the coverage to fit your needs.
For example I have the structure of my studio covered for fire (and so on)
through a special rider on my homeowners, however my premises liability and the
coverage on my tools and equipment is through ACA. If I wanted, I could have
the building coverage through ACA, but it is currently cheaper through my
homeowners (and I am lucky in having one that WILL still insure a home based
business!). Product liability is through ACA as is a bunch of other things like
work in transit, loss of revenue, and so on.
It is excellent coverage and the price is right. The only catch is that you
must be an ACA member..... which is the professional level of ACC.
............................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
Wilton, NH
76506.3102@Compuserve.com
Christine Davis on tue 6 aug 96
What is the address to join the American Craft Association?
Art Wolfe on mon 15 feb 99
I live in NY and am planning to build a hut and put a commercial propane kiln
in it. I don't make a living selling pottery. Does anyone know what kind of
insurance I will need, who sells it and is it a separate policy from my
homeowners insurance policy. Is it a problem getting insurance for such a
hazardous hobby? Thanks for replies.
Sara JH Ashodian on wed 2 feb 00
hello
to respond to the request for insurance information i ran into this link
many may find informative
http://www.craftsreport.com/resources/insurance.html
sara
--
Sara JH Ashodian
Sash Arts Studio
Sara O'Neill on sat 5 feb 00
Quotesmith on the web is a great place to shop for insurance.
Address is: http://quotesmith.com/cgi/qsindex
good luck!
Sara O'Neill
Goemetrix Clay Designs
Durham, NC
oneat48@aol.com
Wendy Hampton on sun 6 feb 00
I tried doing this and it does not have the state of Washington listed. Do
you know why?
Thanks
Wendy
Lily Krakowski on tue 3 dec 02
Vicky: I am totally uncertain about this, but it is easier for you to check
it out than for me, right now, and you will have the answer sooner. I
think that NOW has an insurance program...and they might have an answer.
And I expect a women's crisis center might be able to help with info--as
there are SO many women who are forced to flee home, jobless, homeless,
insurance less. Worth a try.
Meanwhile a speedy recovery....
Lili Krakowski
P.O. Box #1
Constableville, N.Y.
(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Be of good courage....
Susan Fox-Hirschmann on wed 27 aug 03
I have made other claims with state farm...and they did not blink an eye in
paying for a broken windshield and other things....so I have faith in them and
their company.
Susan
Annadlae, VA
Miriam on wed 27 aug 03
Don't really understand all the aggravation your so called insuror's have been giving you... home inspections & the like....
I'm in Fla...have had State Farm for many years.. agent knows my studio is in the house...the garage has 4 kilns...etc.... not even a flicker of her eye... I do wholesale...pack & ship..no student's...
Agent came by last yr. to update house photo for their files... came into the garage where I was doing something with a kiln... asked permission to photo the house & off she went......
Guess this means I'm being excluded from ONE source of aggro!!!!! How did that happen???
Miriam
Snail Scott on wed 27 aug 03
At 12:38 PM 8/27/03 -0000, you wrote:
>...have had State Farm for many years...agent knows my studio is in the
house...not even a flicker of her eye...
Agents get paid for selling and renewing policies.
The 'proof of the pudding' is when you make a claim
and the company has to back up that policy with money.
'Nice' agents may not be doing you any favor. They're
not the ones who pass judgement on the claim. You will
never know whether your insurance is worth a plugged
nickel until you put in a claim.
-Snail
wayneinkeywest on wed 27 aug 03
Not to rain an anyone's parade, stomp your grapes, or put air in your pug,
but here's MY $.02.
Just because your insurance agent knows that you have one, two, four, a
dozen kilns in your house, under your bed, whatever
does NOT mean that you are covered if or when they cause damage! Even if
they have bats in their eyes.
READ YOUR POLICY!!! if it does not specifically STATE IN WRITING that you
are covered from that type of damage,
then most likely YOU ARE NOT. It might be listed in the exclusions instead.
Just like everyone says practiceX3,
READ times three! If there is something you do not understand, call your
agent, ask them to explain it to you over the phone
(they have a copy, trust me) and Tape record the conversation. This defense
can get you paid if your agent says yes, and the
company later says no. (it has happened before, too many times)
Sorry for shouting. Too many people _assume_ that because they have a
policy, they are covered. They find out too late.
The agent doesn't care, it's not their life, it's not their house, it's not
their stuff. They got their money when you paid the bill,
and that ends their involvement, until it's time to renew.
Margaret at least knew from the start, and took her chances. You see what
happened to her, and it would not have happened if
the agent gave a crap about her, her life, her family, and wrote her the
kind of policy she needed.
Make sure your policy includes the kiln.
If that sounds paranoid, well, been there, done that, threw the cylinder,
blew up the kiln.
Wayne in Key West
> Don't really understand all the aggravation your so called insuror's have
been giving you... home inspections & the like....
> I'm in Fla...have had State Farm for many years.. agent knows my studio is
in the house...the garage has 4 kilns...etc.... not even a flicker of her
eye... I do wholesale...pack & ship..no student's...
> Agent came by last yr. to update house photo for their files... came into
the garage where I was doing something with a kiln... asked permission to
photo the house & off she went......
>
> Guess this means I'm being excluded from ONE source of aggro!!!!! How did
that happen???
Miriam on sun 31 aug 03
Just because your insurance agent knows that you have one, two, four, a
dozen kilns in your house, under your bed, whatever
does NOT mean that you are covered if or when they cause damage! Even if
they have bats in their eyes.
READ YOUR POLICY!!! if it does not specifically STATE IN WRITING that you
are covered from that type of damage,
then most likely YOU ARE NOT. It might be listed in the exclusions instead.
My, My... what is your reason for being so bloody UPTIGHT!!!! Mr. Know All!!! Cheeze...JUST for your information, I don't keep my kilns under the bed, do YOU?? the next time I want some light reading with my glass of ice tea, I'll just go dig out my Ins. Policy for a good read through......Doesn't that sound like great fun??????
Of course, the alternative would be to just CALL THE AGENT AND ASK!!!!!! where it's stated, however, that's probably far too simple a solution for any man who likes to do everything the hard way. I've been running kilns since 1969, & even seriously over firing one, immediately after being worked on by an obviously inferior Kiln Repairman... did not lead to FIRE..
Miriam
Kathi LeSueur on sun 31 aug 03
mirijun@YAHOO.COM wrote:
>(1)Just because your insurance agent knows that you have... kilns in your=20=
house, under your bed, whatever does NOT mean that you are covered...... REA=
D YOUR POLICY!!!>> (2) ((My, My... what is your reason for being so bloody U=
PTIGHT!!!! Mr. Know All!!! Cheeze...JUST for your information, I don't ke=
ep my kilns under the bed, do YOU?? the next time I want some light readin=
g with my glass of ice tea, I'll just go dig out my Ins. Policy for a good r=
ead through......Doesn't that sound like great fun??????))
>
>
>Sorry, but I have to come to the defense of the original post (#1). I sugge=
st even when you aren't looking for some light reading you read that policy.=
Reading your policy is the ONLY way you will know what your coverage is and=
what is excluded. There are too many times that someone assumes they are co=
vered for a loss and find out they are not. Such as, if you haven't read you=
r latest renewal you probably don't know that damage from mold is excluded (=
it might not be now, but every carrier is excluding it in future policies un=
less you pay for that specific coverage). Your agent may tell you that your=20=
studio is covered, he may believe it. But what is the nature of the coverage=
. Replacement, actual value? And, is your liability adequate for the possibl=
e customer who trips and sues. You should be uptight. Your home is probably=20=
your most valuable asset and far too many people are far too casual in prote=
cting that asset adequately. Know what your coverage really is. Don't just a=
ccept the word of your agent. I've known too many people who did that and th=
en found they weren't covered.
>
>Kathi
>
>___________________________________________________________________________=
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.=
com.
> =20
>
Maid O'Mud on sun 31 aug 03
"Mr. Uptight" is right; whether you liked the presentation or not. My
better half works for AXA Insurance....
If it's not stated in the policy - worse, if it's excluded, and your next
overfiring leads to a fire, you'll be S.O.L.
Crying "but I didn't know" doesn't help.
signed - "Mrs. Uptight" securely insured in Melbourne (and no, NOT through
AXA).
Sam - Maid O'Mud Pottery
Melbourne, Ontario CANADA
"First, the clay told me what to do.
Then, I told the clay what to do.
Now, we co-operate."
sam 1994
http://www.ody.ca/~scuttell/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miriam"
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 9:34 AM
Subject: INSURANCE
> Just because your insurance agent knows that you have one, two, four, a
> dozen kilns in your house, under your bed, whatever
> does NOT mean that you are covered if or when they cause damage! Even if
> they have bats in their eyes.
> READ YOUR POLICY!!! if it does not specifically STATE IN WRITING that you
> are covered from that type of damage,
> then most likely YOU ARE NOT. It might be listed in the exclusions
instead.
>
>
> My, My... what is your reason for being so bloody UPTIGHT!!!! Mr. Know
All!!! Cheeze...JUST for your information, I don't keep my kilns under the
bed, do YOU?? the next time I want some light reading with my glass of ice
tea, I'll just go dig out my Ins. Policy for a good read
through......Doesn't that sound like great fun??????
>
> Of course, the alternative would be to just CALL THE AGENT AND ASK!!!!!!
where it's stated, however, that's probably far too simple a solution for
any man who likes to do everything the hard way. I've been running kilns
since 1969, & even seriously over firing one, immediately after being
worked on by an obviously inferior Kiln Repairman... did not lead to FIRE..
>
> Miriam
>
wayneinkeywest on sun 31 aug 03
My apologies to the group in advance. This should have been taken off
list.
Miriam, I have lost two houses to fire. One to lightning, deemed an "act of
God" by the insurance company. Loss, $83,000 out of pocket...not covered.
The other due to defective electrical wiring, done by the previous owner.
Unlicensed work, and undisclosed at the closing on the house. House
inspection passed it.
Not covered by the insurance company. Loss? $175,000 out of pocket. I'm
still paying that mortgage off.
You bet your ass I'm going to read the policy, and I will NOT believe what
the agent tells me.
Chill.
Wayne in Key West
> My, My... what is your reason for being so bloody UPTIGHT!!!! Mr. Know
All!!! Cheeze...JUST for your information, I don't keep my kilns under the
bed, do YOU?? the next time I want some light reading with my glass of ice
tea, I'll just go dig out my Ins. Policy for a good read
through......Doesn't that sound like great fun??????
>
> Of course, the alternative would be to just CALL THE AGENT AND ASK!!!!!!
where it's stated, however, that's probably far too simple a solution for
any man who likes to do everything the hard way. I've been running kilns
since 1969, & even seriously over firing one, immediately after being
worked on by an obviously inferior Kiln Repairman... did not lead to FIRE..
Larry Kruzan on sun 31 aug 03
> Of course, the alternative would be to just CALL THE AGENT AND ASK!!!!!!
where it's stated, however, that's probably far too simple a solution for
any man who likes to do everything the hard way. I've been running kilns
since 1969, & even seriously over firing one, immediately after being
worked on by an obviously inferior Kiln Repairman... did not lead to FIRE..
>
> Miriam
>
The advice given was really sound and should not be blown off with this sort
of attitude. I have been a serious woodworker for lots of years (+40) and
never had a fire. Then late one day two years ago I left my shop without
picking up some finish soaked rags - I'd done it before and not had a
problem. Three hours !!!! later the niegboors are pounding on my door
telling me my shop is on fire. The short story is that it was a total loss,
building $56,000 woodworking shop contents and tools $ 65,000, darkroom and
photo studio $60,000, two year old John Deere tractor and loader $25,000.
All the toys I had accumilated over 40 years gone in a few minutes due to my
carelessness with a flamable. I do not work as a photographer, but I do
sell woodworking tools part time for a local store. That might have caused
a problem except they could not make a link (none really existed).
State Farm paid off in full for one reason - I had a insurance review 3
months before and made my agent list the big buck items in that building as
hobby use on my policy. In Black and white! Additionally I added
replacment value coverage and listed the use of woodfinishing products.
Plus in the review I discovered that the building was only insured for
$25,000 and had that figure dubbled to $50,000 - I had to pay the $6,000
shortage out of my pocket. Everything else was covered due to my
dilligance - not my agents. He is a good man and does his job but my home
is my responsability not his.
When I started building up the clay studio a few months back guess who I
called first - my State Farm Agent. The existance of my electric kiln is
now duly noted on my policy and I sleep well.
Larry
Lori Leary on sun 31 aug 03
Why so strident?
Wayne has made some excellent points, as he always does. I for one am glad
to have Wayne here on Clayart...his posts are a pleasure to read.
You Rock, Wayne
Lori L.
lleary@epix.net
Mountain Top, PA
Miriam wrote:
> My, My... what is your reason for being so bloody UPTIGHT!!!! Mr. Know
All!!! Cheeze...JUST for your information, I don't keep my kilns under the
bed, do YOU?? the next time I want some light reading with my glass of ice
tea, I'll just go dig out my Ins. Policy for a good read
through......Doesn't that sound like great fun??????
>
> Of course, the alternative would be to just CALL THE AGENT AND ASK!!!!!!
where it's stated, however, that's probably far too simple a solution for
any man who likes to do everything the hard way. I've been running kilns
since 1969, & even seriously over firing one, immediately after being
worked on by an obviously inferior Kiln Repairman... did not lead to FIRE..
>
> Miriam
>
L. P. Skeen on sun 31 aug 03
> When I started building up the clay studio a few months back guess who I
called first - my State Farm Agent.
Well, I'm glad they worked like a good neighbor for you; they're sure not
helping ME out any at all. Turns out, insurance law differs from state to
state, and State Farm refuses to cover my home studio because there is a
kiln in it.
L
John Baymore on mon 1 sep 03
> My, My... what is your reason for being so bloody UPTIGHT!!!! Mr. Know=
All!!! Cheeze...JUST for your information, I don't keep my kilns under t=
he
bed, do YOU?? the next time I want some light reading with my glass of
ice
tea, I'll just go dig out my Ins. Policy for a good read
through......Doesn't that sound like great fun??????
Miriam,
The agent can say anything they want to you....... it is not binding on t=
he
insurance company. You'll likely find something in the fine print of the=
policy you have that stipluates that very point quite exactly. Now maybe=
,
should there be a denied claim, you could just sue the agent as an
individual....... but unless what was said is actually in writing you'd
have a hard time proving it. And the legal costs to find out might be
prohibiitve.
Wayne had good advice in his last posting. I am sorry that you found his=
wording somehow offensive. I don't thnk that he is making harder than it=
has to be....... the policy is a legal document that is binding upon you.=
..
and you are paying good money for it. I assume that you would read your
last will and testament to make sure that it is saying what you THNIK it =
is
saying ........... and not giving your house to the lawyer that actually
drew it up . =
It may be contrary to your experiences.... but there are plenty of fires
and "near misses" caused by electric kilns. A while back I did a survey
that involved information about that kind of thing as preparation for a
case that I was fighting on behalf of a gas kiln owner who was in danger =
of
being shut down. Among other things, the "other side" was contending tha=
t
electric kilns were a perfectly "safe" alternative firing method and that=
the gas kiln should be shut down and "traded" for electric kilns. From
work as a kiln consultant / builder I already knew this was not really th=
e
case...... but I wanted some more hard quantifiable data to back up my
anecdotal information....... and I was actually sort of surprised by the
volume of respondents that reported electric kiln fires, "melt downs", an=
d
near misses. (BTW... we won the case..... the gas kiln is still firing
away.)
Hopefully you will not ever have to experience that situation.
As a personal anecdote about dealing with insurance companies............=
.
A while back I had a loss on my homeowners (first claim in 20+ years) whi=
ch
involved my studio. (Homeowners covers the building part of the studio bu=
t
not the contents or liability portions which I carry separately). We ha=
d
a MASSIVE Nor'Easter snowstorm here..... my two story house was drifted i=
n
from ground level to the roof peak three stories in the air. Pretty
amazing. I spent a lot of time shoveling to get the load off the roofs. =
Unfortunately, I made the mistake of forgetting the section of the studio=
that was a shed type roof attached to the side of the main barn. Not sur=
e
how I overlooked it..... probably just exhausted. Anyway...... two days
later it rained torrentially. You guessed it....... roof load took out t=
he
32 foot by 25 foot two story shed roofed structure. Basically a total
loss. Quite a mess.
Materials and supplies and such stored in there (storage room) were not
covered by the homeownwers...... they were covered on another policy. Bu=
t
the structure WAS covered by it. Or so I thought at the time of the even=
t.
The snow load issue was not specifically excluded by an "act of god" at
that time. I had set up with my agent an "automatic value up at policy
renewal" situation,........ so I thought I was well prepared for this
unfortunate event. Turned out that the rate of the value up and the real=
rate of appreciation of the property did not exactly match. The agent, wh=
o
knows the situation with home values here, did not ever alert me to this
fact. So I was blindly feeling "covered". So when the claim went in (an=
d
it WAS to be covered.... no arguments) the friendly adjuster "discovered"=
that the value of the overall property (not just the shed roof portion)
was greater than the insured value by a certain percentage (according to
THEIR figures). Interestingly, that percentage he came up with was ONE
POINT above a certain threshold that they accepted in which they would ju=
st
fully cover the claim. Because it exceeded this amout...... they HAD to
deal with the "underinsured status" problem.
So the adjuster dragged out a calculator and figured out how much
underinsured we were (if the property overall was a total loss). He the=
n
multiplied that result against the actual loss for the section of the
building. Came up with a figure that was about 79 percent of the actual
loss. The insured value for the whole place was way, WAY, =
over the relatively small cost to replace the actuall structure which wa=
s
lost...... but that did not matter.
But he wasn't done with "adjusting" things yet. (That's way they are call=
ed
"adjusters". They "adjust" things to the financial benefit of the compan=
y
.) He then did what seemed a bunch of "slight of hand" and depreciat=
ed
the value of the structure because it was quite old (they don't build the=
m
like that anymore), decided that it was not in "like new" condition at th=
e
time of loss and deducted some for that, took off the deductable, and so
on. Making a long story short....... what we got for the loss was not
enough to even BEGIN to replace the structure. =
Now maybe we could have retained a lawyer and fought with them........ bu=
t
as it was it was a HUGE time drain on me. Fighting a legal battle (with =
no
guarantee of winning) was the LAST thing that I would have wanted to do a=
t
that point. It was clear that the insurance company anticipated and
depended on that "won't fight this" factor. We did all we could shy of
taking them to court. Finally we gave up.
SO......... I ended up losing a large portion of my studio's convenient
storage space...... I have never replaced it to this day. I took the
insurance money and (with their prior approval) invested it in some other=
repairs to the main studio structure. It didn't go very far .
It would have about been 1/3 the cost to replace the lost section of th=
e
studio. =
I have tons of freinds with similar stories about homeowners insurance. =
I'm glad you haven't had to deal with this kind of "insult to injury" jus=
t
when you are at a low point.
best,
......................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086-5812 USA
JBaymore@compuserve.com
http://www.JohnBaymore.com
603-654-2752 (studio)
800-900-1110 (studio)
"Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop: August 15-24,
2003"
piedpotterhamelin@COMCAST.NET on mon 1 sep 03
Listen carefully.
Several Massachusetts' insurance agents basically told me the same thing;
The existance of a kiln and not telling the Insurance Company of this could
prevent a claim of being paid, even though another cause, such as a blowdryer
could have been the fault.
Every small business person that I know of here in Mass has had their detached
place of work become part and parcel with their home by the demands of their
insurance company. The game and rules have changed. My home is now commercial
and I have become a tenant because my studio is in the basement. same with the
auto body shop guy that I know who has been in business their for 25 years.
Being it that we are now in the process of building a detached studio on my
property, we have initiated reviewing our policy and what is offered.out
there.
My agent, in reviewing my request for additional coverage while the structure
is being built, as me questions such as if I use radioactive materials, do I
sell to NASA, do I use flammables.
My coverage has increased in cost 400 percent, but the payout has remained the
same.
Rick
> "Mr. Uptight" is right; whether you liked the presentation or not. My
> better half works for AXA Insurance....
>
> If it's not stated in the policy - worse, if it's excluded, and your next
> overfiring leads to a fire, you'll be S.O.L.
>
> Crying "but I didn't know" doesn't help.
>
> signed - "Mrs. Uptight" securely insured in Melbourne (and no, NOT through
> AXA).
>
>
> Sam - Maid O'Mud Pottery
> Melbourne, Ontario CANADA
>
> "First, the clay told me what to do.
> Then, I told the clay what to do.
> Now, we co-operate."
> sam 1994
>
> http://www.ody.ca/~scuttell/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Miriam"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 9:34 AM
> Subject: INSURANCE
>
>
> > Just because your insurance agent knows that you have one, two, four, a
> > dozen kilns in your house, under your bed, whatever
> > does NOT mean that you are covered if or when they cause damage! Even if
> > they have bats in their eyes.
> > READ YOUR POLICY!!! if it does not specifically STATE IN WRITING that you
> > are covered from that type of damage,
> > then most likely YOU ARE NOT. It might be listed in the exclusions
> instead.
> >
> >
> > My, My... what is your reason for being so bloody UPTIGHT!!!! Mr. Know
> All!!! Cheeze...JUST for your information, I don't keep my kilns under the
> bed, do YOU?? the next time I want some light reading with my glass of ice
> tea, I'll just go dig out my Ins. Policy for a good read
> through......Doesn't that sound like great fun??????
> >
> > Of course, the alternative would be to just CALL THE AGENT AND ASK!!!!!!
> where it's stated, however, that's probably far too simple a solution for
> any man who likes to do everything the hard way. I've been running kilns
> since 1969, & even seriously over firing one, immediately after being
> worked on by an obviously inferior Kiln Repairman... did not lead to FIRE..
> >
> > Miriam
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Ava on fri 26 aug 05
Howdy All,
I'm new to the list, I haven't had time to read many posts. I've been
tackling lot's of issues in many directions lately. My husband and I
are finishing building me a studio, cement floor with wood walls that
will be sheet rocked two story. The plan was submitted as a shed on our
17 acres. I called our insurance company to see about having it added
to our insurance and a trailer we purchased and put on the land for one
of our children. They can both be put as additional dwelling buildings;
however, once we add or build a kiln the underwriters will have a
problem because of liability issues so the agent from State Farm says.
I was wondering if any of you have had this problem, and how you have
dealt with it?
I've already explained that the electric kilns are in many folks
garages, and basements! One of the kilns I'd like to build is the
Modified Brisbane Kiln and I told them that is like a fireplace.
Thanks,
Ava
--
~~~Ava~~~
Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards.
Soren Kierkegaard
My words are my own; please do not copy, paste, forward, modify,
or distribute them in any form or fashion without prior written consent.
Kathi LeSueur on fri 26 aug 05
Ava wrote:
> .......My husband and I are finishing building me a studio, cement
> floor with wood walls that
> will be sheet rocked two story. The plan was submitted as a shed on our
> 17 acres. I called our insurance company .......They can both be put
> as additional dwelling buildings;
> however, once we add or build a kiln the underwriters will have a
> problem because of liability issues so the agent from State Farm says.
>
>
Contact an independent agency ( one who writes insurance for many
companies) that writes insurance for auto, home, and commercial. They
will be able to write you a policy that covers all contingencies. And,
the agent will be working for you not the company. That's important if
you have a loss. The duty of an agent working for you is to see that you
are well served. The duty of an agent employed by an insurer (state
Farm, etc) is to reduce the company's loss.
Kathi
stephani stephenson on sat 16 dec 06
that would be a good topic for a discussion or a
presentation at NCECA ..from someone who really knows
the industry.
i too have a business policy and it is quite
affordable ,but I know very little about what else is
out there, what is competitive, what others do,
recommended size of policy, etc....
with regard to product: i state certain guidelines in
my terms about care and use and also disclaimer for
installation issues. there is certification for
certain things which have specific uses, like floor
tile, a whole different ball game than wall or
decorative tile.
but i also about the scale of business matters and
what is both wise and reasonable. especially what is
reasonable.
for example, I understand if you break a tooth on a
cherry pit when you bite into a piece of commercial
cherry pie, the company is not at fault, because pits
are in cherries to begin with, and there can never be
an absolute guarantee that every single pit will be
removed from every batch of pitted cherry pie filling.
there is an assumption that a diner will know that
pits are associated with cherries and there is a
chance that one will be encountered, and will take due
caution when eating cherry pie.
that sort of thing.
how it relates to using a cup or a bowl i don't know.
i also don't know if it matters that you sell a cup to
a neighbor or whether you sell 1000 cups to a
wholesaler. people i know who are larger scale
obviously invest more $$$ in insurance.
also good to know more about disclaimers
and also the common disclaimers, etc. which apply
such as statements in terms , releases, etc.etc.
i know the American craft council use to offer a
policy for members.
i get mine through my regular insurer (who also
handles auto, etc)
these are all areas we could better educate ourselves
about
anyone out there know a great resource ?
Stephani Stephenson
__________________________________________________
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Tom at Hutchtel.net on tue 8 jan 08
For what it's worth....
For those in the midwest, look at Grinnell Mutual out of Grinnell, Iowa.
They were the one's who carried us through the fire without a quibble, even
though we had been with them only 45 days! We now use Auto-Owners, who
despite the name, does mostly business insurance. We will go back to
Grinnell
when we can because of how fair they were to us. But they are what's called
a reinsurer, they sell the policies to others and after the fire, we weren't
re-sellable so they couldn't write us.
The local agent is still the biggest part of the picture. Someone who has
sold his/her company for a long time can go to the underwriters if rates
seem too high. You will probably get a fire inspection. If you don't,
beware!
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
Maggie Furtak on tue 21 sep 10
It's interesting that=3DA0people have had such problems with their home ins=
ur=3D
ance =3D0Aand their clay businesses.=3DA0 I was very nervous about informin=
g my=3D
home insurance =3D0Aof my=3DA0studio, but it worked out well.=3DA0=3DA0I w=
as lucky=3D
enough to get=3DA0a =3D0Arepresentative on the phone who had taken a potte=
ry=3D
=3DA0class=3DA0in college.=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0That may =3D0Ahave helped.=3DA0 As=
ked me questio=3D
ns such as:=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0A=3D0ADo you plan to use your home for retail sal=
es?=3DA0 N=3D
o, but I do have an occasional =3D0Acustomer pickup something from me there=
i=3D
f it is more convenient for them.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0AWhat kind of kiln do you h=
ave?=3D
=3DA0 Medium-sized electric with a kiln-sitter and =3D0Alimit timer for add=
itio=3D
nal safety.=3DA0 It's vented.=3DA0 I have carbon monoxide =3D0Adetectors, s=
moke d=3D
etectors, and the kiln was installed by professional =3D0Aelectricians acco=
rd=3D
ing to the manufacturers safety specifications.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0AWhat's the v=
alue o=3D
f your equipment and depreciation in case we needed to =3D0Areimburse you f=
or=3D
it?=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0AAn average value for materials?=3DA0 =3D0AWhat is your =
average an=3D
nual pottery income?=3DA0 =3D0ADo you plan to teach classes?=3DA0 No=3D0AHa=
ve emplo=3D
yees?=3DA0 No=3D0AHow many square feet is used for the studio?=3D0A=3D0AThe=
y added =3D
a little bit to our annual insurance rate and told me that if I want =3D0At=
o =3D
teach, have employees or become a retail space (all of which violate zoning=
=3D
=3D0Ain my area, so I'm not going to), that it would get more expensive an=
d =3D
I should =3D0Ainform them immediately.=3DA0 Also if my income changes signi=
fica=3D
ntly I should =3D0Ainform them, as that is also a major factor in the cost,=
a=3D
nd I might get bumped =3D0Aup to the next level of insurance.=3DA0 All very=
ple=3D
asant and not too expensive.=3DA0 =3D0AI'm not covered if my EZ-Up blows ov=
er o=3D
n someone at a craft fair, but as long =3D0Aas I'm at home, I'm covered.=3D=
A0 =3D
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A(: =3D0AMaggie=3D0APate Ceramics=3D0Apateceramics.etsy.com=
=3D0Apateceramic=3D
s.blogspot.com=3D0A781-956-1364=3D0A517 Fellsway East=3D0AMalden, MA 02148 =
=3D0A=3D0A=3D
=3D0A
Larry Kruzan on wed 22 sep 10
That was pretty much what I had experienced too. Be honest, upfront and do =
=3D
not cheat.=3D20
I do have a storefront and studio where I work and sell my ware - it is ful=
=3D
ly insured - fully and my agent has photos, measurement's, equipment model/=
=3D
serial numbers, copies of permits and inspections. They KNOW everything I h=
=3D
ave there.=3D20
When I decided I needed to convert my workshop building at home to a second=
=3D
studio space, I called them first. TOLD them I would have an occasional sa=
=3D
le there, would be teaching, would be building a gas kiln, would duplicate =
=3D
the equipment I have at the store. They decided I should insure the buildin=
=3D
g as an extended structure to my store - like an outbuilding. Dropped it fr=
=3D
om my homeowners policy since it was now covered under the business policy.=
=3D
=3D20
The homeowners policy dropped about $300 a year and the business policy wen=
=3D
t up $150. By being upfront I saved a little=3DC2=3DA0money. But even if it=
was=3D
the other way around, it would be cheap if I had a fire. I know - that bui=
=3D
lding burnt to the ground 10 years ago. State Farm covered everything witho=
=3D
ut question or problem. I had everything documented, photographed and liste=
=3D
d in the policy.=3D20
Insurance does not cost - it pays, when you need it most.=3D20
Larry Kruzan=3D20
Lost Creek Pottery=3D20
---- Original Message -----=3D20
From: "Maggie Furtak" =3D20
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D20
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:48:50 PM=3D20
Subject: Insurance=3D20
It's interesting that=3DC2=3DA0people have had such problems with their hom=
e in=3D
surance=3D20
and their clay businesses.=3DC2=3DA0 I was very nervous about informing my =
home=3D
insurance=3D20
of my=3DC2=3DA0studio, but it worked out well.=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0I was luc=
ky enough to=3D
get=3DC2=3DA0a=3D20
representative on the phone who had taken a pottery=3DC2=3DA0class=3DC2=3DA=
0in coll=3D
ege.=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0That may=3D20
have helped.=3DC2=3DA0 Asked me questions such as:=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
Do you plan to use your home for retail sales?=3DC2=3DA0 No, but I do have =
an o=3D
ccasional=3D20
customer pickup something from me there if it is more convenient for them.=
=3D
=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
What kind of kiln do you have?=3DC2=3DA0 Medium-sized electric with a kiln-=
sitt=3D
er and=3D20
limit timer for additional safety.=3DC2=3DA0 It's vented.=3DC2=3DA0 I have =
carbon m=3D
onoxide=3D20
detectors, smoke detectors, and the kiln was installed by professional=3D20
electricians according to the manufacturers safety specifications.=3DC2=3DA=
0=3D20
What's the value of your equipment and depreciation in case we needed to=3D=
20
reimburse you for it?=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
An average value for materials?=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
What is your average annual pottery income?=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
Do you plan to teach classes?=3DC2=3DA0 No=3D20
Have employees?=3DC2=3DA0 No=3D20
How many square feet is used for the studio?=3D20
They added a little bit to our annual insurance rate and told me that if I =
=3D
want=3D20
to teach, have employees or become a retail space (all of which violate zon=
=3D
ing=3D20
in my area, so I'm not going to), that it would get more expensive and I sh=
=3D
ould=3D20
inform them immediately.=3DC2=3DA0 Also if my income changes significantly =
I sh=3D
ould=3D20
inform them, as that is also a major factor in the cost, and I might get bu=
=3D
mped=3D20
up to the next level of insurance.=3DC2=3DA0 All very pleasant and not too =
expe=3D
nsive.=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
I'm not covered if my EZ-Up blows over on someone at a craft fair, but as l=
=3D
ong=3D20
as I'm at home, I'm covered.=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
(:=3D20
Maggie=3D20
Pate Ceramics=3D20
pateceramics.etsy.com=3D20
pateceramics.blogspot.com=3D20
781-956-1364=3D20
517 Fellsway East=3D20
Malden, MA 02148=3D20
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