J. Creeggan on thu 19 jun 97
Hi all!
Just got back to my e-mail after 3 weeks of moving. Went through 2600
messages... yikes! The delete key was just flying. Anyway...
I have two topics of concern regarding our guild. We work out of a
community facility (some equipment is owned by the city... taxpayers
$$$!) and pay about $4200/yr. in rent and $350/yr. insurance. Needless
to say, these costs are hard to handle with 8 members paying $20
each/month. Myself and another potter work out of our homes producing
pots full-time. We use the facilities to glaze and fire in the gas kiln.
We are members of the guild and take on quite a bit of the chores (we
are both members of the exec.). Between the two of us, we pay approx.
$4500 in rent/yr., teach the classes which bring in approx. $1500/yr.
for the guild, and contribute about $600/yr. through guild sales. We use
the facility about 9 days/month. The dilemma is this. We have a couple
of members of the community (some not even members of the guild!) that
seem to think that becacuse we are making money at this we should be
paying more or not allowed to work there for profit at all. We can't
afford any more! Believe me, as I'm sure you can relate, we're not
getting rich! Can anyone out there relate? We need proof of some similar
circumstances to back our case. Also we need to know approx. costs of
firing a 43 cu. foot gas kiln, 5 times/month, 10 hours/fire. We think
around $50 a firing. Am I way off base?
Dilemma #2
In the fall we had a guild president (who quit abruptly in January) who
gave out keys to five 14 and 15 year olds (called the jr. guild)so that
they could have full, unsupervised access to the studio whenever they
pleased. She said that our insurance company o.k.ed this.(?!?) She also
said that under the Alberta Societies act, if minors are members, they
are entitled to full use of the studio, like any other member. The
studio was frequently left in a mess and members were not pleased. After
this woman quit, we changed the locks and started having two days a
week, 3 hours each, scheduled time for the jr. guild. Members
volunteered their time, which was quite a sacrifice. Well, jr. members
are not happy with this and either are their mothers (!!!). They want
the keys back. HELP!!! What do other guilds do with younger members? Any
stories of lawsuits, etc?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!
Jennie in Fort McMurray
Cheryl L Litman on sat 21 jun 97
As for point number 2 and the unlimited access for teens. I don't know
what state/country you live in, but in NJ that would be illegal to allow
minors 24 hour access without supervision - aside from that it's asking
for trouble. Tough if the parents/teens aren't happy. I teach in a
non-profit cultural center and we aren't allowed to hold a class without
another adult in the building at all times - goes for children's and
adult's classes! get in contact with your insureance company directly
and have it put in writing whether or not they allow unsuprevised access
- bet they don't!
I too have seen much hostility from volunteers at the cultural center
toward those of us who teach. They resent the fact that we earn money
off of "their" free labor. This is harder to handle but needs an open
general meeting to address specific points one at a time. Make sure they
know what you bring in to the facility monetarily and what you give in
time. Have ereryhting spelled out.
Good luck
Cheryl Litman
On Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:55:47 EDT "J. Creeggan"
writes:
>----------------------------Original
>message----------------------------
>Hi all!
>
>Just got back to my e-mail after 3 weeks of moving. Went through 2600
>messages... yikes! The delete key was just flying. Anyway...
>
>I have two topics of concern regarding our guild. We work out of a
>community facility (some equipment is owned by the city... taxpayers
>$$$!) and pay about $4200/yr. in rent and $350/yr. insurance. Needless
>to say, these costs are hard to handle with 8 members paying $20
>each/month. Myself and another potter work out of our homes producing
>pots full-time. We use the facilities to glaze and fire in the gas
>kiln.
>We are members of the guild and take on quite a bit of the chores (we
>are both members of the exec.). Between the two of us, we pay approx.
>$4500 in rent/yr., teach the classes which bring in approx. $1500/yr.
>for the guild, and contribute about $600/yr. through guild sales. We
>use
>the facility about 9 days/month. The dilemma is this. We have a couple
>of members of the community (some not even members of the guild!) that
>seem to think that becacuse we are making money at this we should be
>paying more or not allowed to work there for profit at all. We can't
>afford any more! Believe me, as I'm sure you can relate, we're not
>getting rich! Can anyone out there relate? We need proof of some
>similar
>circumstances to back our case. Also we need to know approx. costs of
>firing a 43 cu. foot gas kiln, 5 times/month, 10 hours/fire. We think
>around $50 a firing. Am I way off base?
>
>Dilemma #2
>In the fall we had a guild president (who quit abruptly in January)
>who
>gave out keys to five 14 and 15 year olds (called the jr. guild)so
>that
>they could have full, unsupervised access to the studio whenever they
>pleased. She said that our insurance company o.k.ed this.(?!?) She
>also
>said that under the Alberta Societies act, if minors are members, they
>are entitled to full use of the studio, like any other member. The
>studio was frequently left in a mess and members were not pleased.
>After
>this woman quit, we changed the locks and started having two days a
>week, 3 hours each, scheduled time for the jr. guild. Members
>volunteered their time, which was quite a sacrifice. Well, jr. members
>are not happy with this and either are their mothers (!!!). They want
>the keys back. HELP!!! What do other guilds do with younger members?
>Any
>stories of lawsuits, etc?
>
>Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!
>
>Jennie in Fort McMurray
>
Terrance Lazaroff on sat 21 jun 97
Jennie:
I am confused. You stated that the rent for your Guild Studio was $4200 plus
$350 for insurance. Yet you state that there are only 8 people paying 20.00
per month. Calculating the total revenue I find that you are only regaining
$1920 per year. Are you both included in the $1920 and if so where does the
$4500 rental expense come into the picture. Your generosity of teaching
gaining $1500 per year increases the 1920 revenu to $3420 . Again how do
you make up the diff.
Your question about firing costs can be best determined by taking the gas
reading at the beginning of the firing and again at the end of the firing.
The difference will tell you your energy consumption. Now all you have to
do is to call the gas co. and find out what a unit of gas costs. If it is
propane then you will have to estimate the numebr of firings between refills
and determine the average cost. You should also insert some value for the
depreciation of your kiln. Your guild should establish a value then
depreciate these costs over a period of years. The value of the kiln will
become less and less over time yet there will be maintenance costs associated
that will keep the depreciation costs very consistant. Let us say that your
kiln has a value of $10,000 and is fully paid off. Let us say that we want
to replace the kiln in 15 yrs. You will then have to put aside some funds to
do this. In your case the number of firings average out to 5 per month.
this would mean that you, in theory could use the kiln 900 times over the
life of the kiln. Taking these figures it is evident that the kiln cost for
use would be just over $10.00 plus gas costs. There could be regular
maintenance costs that should be shared by all during the life of the kiln.
Your use of the guild space is dependant on the amount of work you move
through the space each month; not the number of days that you are there.
You should be careful how you move into a common area to work especially if
you are a production potter. It is not fair on the casual potter to have a
large scale ceramist taking up lots of guild space even if it is only for
9days per month. A guild studio is for the casual potter. If production
potting is going to be carried out then there would have to be an agreement
with members about the impact of the activity on the guild members. Remember
the guild is a community that votes democrately. You have to go with the
wishes or the members. If they say no production potting allowed then that
is it . Find a private studio.
The rules about youth are not my ball of wax but I believe that scheduled
hours are the best way to go. Call a general assembly and make the law that
will ensure that the youth wing are supervised. If they don't like this then
they can find another club to participate in the arts.
Good luck
Terrance F Lazaroff
St Hubert , Quebec, Canada !!!!!!!!!!!
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