FallisT@aol.com on wed 30 jul 97
I've been asked by an outlet to acquire Product Liability Insurance & that I
need to send them a current Certificate of Insurance; its seems to me that
this will be costly. My insurance agent is not familair with this at all.
My pot business is run by myself only; I'm a member of The Small Studio
Alliance. I don't turn out a vast quantity of pots & I don't go out to big or
little shows of any kind but I do ship all over. I fear that the insurance
will cost more than all my other expenses combined.
In the letter they are asking for something called a "Broad Form Vendor
Endorsement" that maybe some of you are familiar with.
No-one cooks in my pots that I know of but since they are intended for daily
use or sometimes use I suppose "Product Liability Insurance" is a good idea.
Thank you if anyone as any information about this at all.
Anne Fallis-Elliott
FallisT@aol.com
434 Greenwich St.
NYC, NY 10013
Richard Aerni on thu 31 jul 97
Ann,
First of all, I believe you need to find a new insurance agent if your
present one doesn't know anything about Product Liability Insurance. It
is a relatively common type of insurance for anyone making or selling a
product.
I've never been asked by any gallery to supply a proof of my insurance
coverage--I would guess that they have their own policies, and their
agent, in trying to spread his/her risk, has asked them to include their
suppliers as "additional insured", meaning that if something goes wrong
with one of your products that they sold, the customer would seek
recourse from you as well as them.
At any rate, here are the details of my policy, obtained via General
Accident Insurance. I believe they are out of Philadelphia. I also use
them for my cars' and household insurance, which probably means that I
get some discounts, as well as knowing that the different coverages
dovetail well together.
I have several parts to the insurance coverage. The first is called
"Commercial Property Coverage" which covers my studio for all the usual
disasters, for replacement of the machinery and the contents (includes a
certain amount of finished work as well), covers my kiln barn and
contents, and has coverage for injury on the property. I won't quote you
the amounts of coverage, but every agent should know high and low limits
to recommend. This part costs me $218.00 per year.
The second part is called "Commercial General Liability Coverage", and it
covers injuries that occur as a result of contact with my work, for
whatever reason. (explosions, lead, etc) It also protects me from damages
caused if my business pollutes, if my product causes a person to become
intoxicated and suffer damage to themselves, and many many other things
which I believe to be boilerplate insurance talk. This part of the
insurance is pro rated costwise based upon your sales, and is adjusted
every year based upon an audit of your sales. My cost for this last year
was $313.00.
I also have a couple of riders thrown in which cover me for a certain
percentage of my usual monthly income in case I cannot work due to damage
to the studio, etc. These were thrown in for the difference between what
I had paid and what I should have paid, based on this past year's audit.
In addition, I also have a personal "Umbrella Policy" with the same
company for $1,000,000, which would cover both my business and myself if
any claim exceeded the limits of the coverages mentioned above. I
believe this costs me $120.00 per year.
Does this help? If it seems unduly complicated, it isn't if you have a
good agent. They understand this after you have described your business
and will walk you through it. Types of insurance that I don't have, and
sometimes wish I did, are disability insurance and a rider covering the
contents of my van going to and fro from shows. They were just too
expensive for me.
I also want to add that I've had these kind of coverages for over 15
years and have yet to make a claim.
Good luck,
Richard Aerni
FallisT@aol.com wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I've been asked by an outlet to acquire Product Liability Insurance & that I
> need to send them a current Certificate of Insurance; its seems to me that
> this will be costly. My insurance agent is not familair with this at all......
snip, snip
> Thank you if anyone as any information about this at all.
> Anne Fallis-Elliott
> FallisT@aol.com
> 434 Greenwich St.
> NYC, NY 10013
Robert S. Bruch on fri 1 aug 97
You can significantly lower the cost of some of this
insurance if you do not sell at the studio that you
are insuring, so that they are not worrying about
numerous people coming through and potentially injuring
themselves. I would guess that the same applies to
not having students and assistants. It also helps not
to have signifcant value in equipment and inventory,
areas which it may be best to self-insure.
--
Bob Bruch rsb8@po.cwru.edu
Anjali Gulati on thu 12 nov 98
To the legal pundits in the group:
I have developed a special line of clay product (not a finished
pottery item) that I want to market. Local shop owner is interested
in selling the product if I have a " PRODUCT LIABILITY INSURANCE"
AND "MATERIAL DATA SHEETS". The latter is easy to get but I do not
know where to begin to get a product liability insurance. If any of
you know, please reply. Thank you............anjali
Tom Wirt on fri 13 nov 98
Just start calling insurance agents. Most will carry some kind of business
insurance that includes product liability. You will be able to specify the
amount...a million or two is typical. Many catalogs require this as well as a
few shows. Frankly, if you're producing work you should have the business
insurance anyway. As pointed out here before, homeowners and other general
insurance (including auto) exclude business activity unless specifically
included.
Shop around. There's a wide variation in price. We get our general business
insurance for about $650 including a million in product liability.
Tom
John Baymore on mon 21 jun 99
------------------
(snip)
I need names of firms handling product liability insurance for folks such
as us potters. I first tried the company handling my homeowner's policy
(USAA) but they don't handle it. I have one quote from Erie but it's for
=24497 per year which seems like a lot. Any recommendations would be =
greatly
appreciated.
(clip)
Call the ACC in New York City. As a member (=2450/yr.) they have an
insurance program that is hard to beat through Great American Casualty.
The features for the cost are as good as any that I have been able to find.
I have been with them for about 5 years...... but it is true that I have
yet to file a claim =3Cg=3E to tell about that side of things.
The figure you quoted didn't seem out of line.....depending on the
coverage. If it is truly a really minimal coverage policy.....I think the
ACC insurance is about =24250 yr. or so. I pay about =24450 a year for a =
bunch
of coverages........ product liability, premises liability, equipment and
tools, work in progress, Inventory, cash and business papers, work at shows
and in transit (no listing requirement), and so on.
Might be what you are looking for.
BEst,
...................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752
JBaymore=40compuserve.com
John.Baymore=40GSD-CO.COM
=22Earth, Water, and Fire climbing kiln firing workshop Aug. 20-29,1999=22
L. P. Skeen on tue 18 jun 02
Bruce =
Girrell just put this bug in my brain when he responded to Elca's lamp =
note. Do any of you carry PL insurance on your work? How much does it =
cost you to do so? This is something that I never considered. =20
L
L. P. Skeen www.living-tree.net
Living Tree Studios, Summerfield, NC
I started with nothing and I still have most of it!
Bruce Girrell on tue 18 jun 02
Lisa Skeen wrote:
> Do any of you carry [product liability] insurance on your work?
> How much does it cost you to do so? This is something that I
> never considered.
Whether it is scratches on great grandmother's heirloom table from grog in
your clay, or burns to a child's hand from touching a candleholder that is
too hot, or a piece of ovenware that explodes, there are Bad Things that can
happen to people as a result of using the products that we, as potters,
make. Product liability insurance is a way to afford some protection from
Bad Things that happen to our customers. I won't go on any tirades about the
frivolousness of some lawsuits in our country - we all know the stories.
People can, and do, sue for damages for just about any reason.
Product liability insurance is an issue that I would like to see the
Potter's Council take on. As individuals dealing with insurance companies,
we have little bargaining clout. The Potter's Council may be in a better
position to get reasonable rates. Just a suggestion.
The downside of liability insurance is that, if you have it, you potentially
become a better target for a lawsuit. Many doctors are now foregoing medical
malpractice insurance because without the insurance, what good is suing the
doctor? You could maybe cause the doctor to close up the practice and move
elsewhere, but you won't get your mega million dollar settlement. Similarly,
what point would there be in suing an uninsured potter? You'd end up putting
the potter out of business and you'd inherit a bunch of brown bags filled
with different colored powders.
Is there anyone out there from the insurance business who could provide a
better comparison of the advantages and disadvantages of product liability
insurance? We'd love to hear from you.
Bruce "I just broke a fingernail on my keyboard - who can I sue?" Girrell
OWLPOTTER@AOL.COM on tue 18 jun 02
We carry product liability along with our other coverage through Hartford and
it costs $17 a month for $1,000.000.
Thought we were going to have to use it this winter when a lady lawyer
purchased a teapot, took it home and filled it with water and placed it on
the electric stove! It split right around the bottom and when she attempted
to lift it, boiling water everywhere. She claimed we told her it was all
right to put it on the stove (30 years of making pottery, hmm...!) at the
time of her purchase. She threatened us with a lawsuit and etc. but backed
down when we refunded her money.
Now I have a card and a hang tag that say "Not intended for stove top use."
It's a suit-crazy world out there!
-Carolynn Palmer, Somerset Center, Michigan
John Baymore on wed 19 jun 02
Lisa,
Hi.
Do any of you carry PL insurance on your work? How much does it =3D
cost you to do so? This is something that I never considered. =3D20
Yup...... don't leave home without it .
I use the ACC insurance program through Ohio Casualty. Good
coverage...tailored for craftspeople and a decent price. I carry $2 mil =
in
product liability (along with a bunch of other stuff) and it costs about
$700 a year. Pretty cheap for the peace of mind. Oh.... plus the dues i=
n
the ACC.
I'd rather not end up spending the rest of my life working to pay off the=
next person who spills a cup of hot coffee (coffee is hot, did you know?)=
in his or her lap, sues for a million dollars, and wins.
Best,
..............................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)
JohnBaymore.com
JBaymore@compuserve.com
"DATES CHANGED: Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop =
August 23 - September 1, 2002"
Janet Kaiser on wed 19 jun 02
Interesting thread.
It is a legal requirement to have public liability insurance, if in
business in the UK. However, product liability??!!? For potters??!
What is the world coming to???!
This is simply a cultural thing and will be different in each and
every country around the globe. If, for example, that silly goose who
spilled coffee (bought at McD's) and burned her nether-regions whilst
driving a car, had taken action in the UK, she would more than likely
have been laughed out of the lawyer's office, never mind a courtroom.
In all probability the judge would have fined her for wasting court
time had it got as far as a British courtroom (one hopes and trusts).
The whole country would have laughed at her and the tabloids have a
field day (Indeed, they did anyway, noting how completely mad the US
"legal" system has become and going on to give other examples of legal
lunacy).
Same goes for the silly ass who put a ceramic teapot on a hob to boil
water... But being a lawyer, she would have known it is no good suing
a little guy. One look at tax returns and she would know that it would
be an awful long time before she was "compensated" for her stupidity.
Of course, if she had found that the potter was covered by
insurance... Well, guess what? I bet it would have been up in front of
a court, before you could say Jack Robinson.
So the question for countries where common sense is still a
requirement in law, as well as an expected attribute in all humans:
will such insurance requirements suffered by potters and other
craftspeople in the USA soon be here, or will we just keep featuring
these crazy claims on TV Loony Hour programmes as an example of how
not to allow the abuse of our legal system/s?
I naturally have a vested interest, because we are agents for
craftspeople. If legal claims were to increase for any reason,
insurance premiums would rocket. It is already expensive enough and
just one more of the overheads which artists and makers have a blind
spot about when bemoaning gallery commission.
Janet Kaiser - in the middle of Criccieth Festival week.
The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
Home of The International Potters' Path
8 Marine Crescent : Criccieth LL52 0EA : GB-Wales
Telephone: ++44 (0)1766-523570
URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
postbox@the-coa.org.uk
Pat K Kratzke on wed 7 aug 02
A few days ago, there was a post on PL insurance that mentioned a policy
from Hartford for $17/month. I am now unable to find it. Could someone
please either send me the information, or post it again? Thanks!
Patti Kratzke
Kingston, WA
pkpotts@juno.com
________________________________________________________________
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Morgan Britt on sat 9 oct 04
Does anyone have product liability insurance or know where one can find
it for the little guy?
Has anyone ever been?
Any thoughts or experience along these lines would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Morgan
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on sat 9 oct 04
Morgan:
The first place to look for liability insurance is with your own
insurance agent... usually the guy or gal that insures your house
and/or car also handles commercial lines of insurance. If not, they
will know who does. You usually have better luck if your agent
represents an "independent" insurance agency; one that can handle
policies from any company they choose. It's how we got ours, and
now have four policies: home, auto, business, and an umbrella
liability policy that has higher limits than any of the other three
"just in case".
Check with the folks you know first.
Best of luck,
Wayne Seidl
=09
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Morgan
Britt
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 10:17 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Product liability insurance
Does anyone have product liability insurance or know where one can
find
it for the little guy?
Has anyone ever been?
Any thoughts or experience along these lines would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks,
Morgan
____________________________________________________________________
__________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your
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Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
piedpotterhamelin@COMCAST.NET on sat 9 oct 04
Check out Encompass insurance and their programs. MAKE POSITIVELY SURE THAT ANY COVERAGE FROM ANYONE GIVES YOU "COMPLETED OPERATIONS" no matter what they say; at least this is the case in massachusetts.
Some agents will try to sell you commercial coverage but look into the
--
"Many a wiser men than I hath
gone to pot." 1649
-------------- Original message --------------
> Does anyone have product liability insurance or know where one can find
> it for the little guy?
>
> Has anyone ever been?
>
> Any thoughts or experience along these lines would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Morgan
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Judy Musicant on sun 10 oct 04
There has been discussion over the years about product liability =
insurance for potters, and whether or not we should be concerned about =
having such coverage. I could be wrong here, but I don't remember =
seeing a post about anyone ever having a situation where product =
liability coverage was necessary. Have any of you folks ever needed it, =
or heard of a potter who did? I'm not suggesting it isn't a good idea, =
but just curious.
Judy Musicant
Janet Price on thu 2 jun 05
Hi all,
About a year ago I asked whether I really needed to get product
liability insurance and the response was yes, even tho I'm very much a
part time potter. Since the annual cost of the liability insurance was
more than my annual sales, I stopped selling my pots--still gave them away.
Today I came across a website that directed me to RLI Insurance Company
out of Peoria. The other name associated with this is John Carriero and
Son. They seem to have developed a special niche policy for in-home
businesses that is a fraction of what I was quoted a year ago. The
base rate is a function of the kind of business and the location and the
amount of coverage. For ceramics in Western MA and $1,000,000 coverage,
it would be $210 a year.
Is anyone familiar with them? Is it just a scam? Thanks for any feedback.
Janet Price
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