Josh Berkus on sun 19 aug 07
Clayart folks,
I'm planning on replacing my battered old Skutt with a new electric kiln with
an electronic controller. Since I can afford anything under $3000, I have
quite a few choices. I've been mining the CLAYART archives for discussions
of electric kiln quality, but what's there is generally not terrifically
current and there is very little discussion of electronic controllers.
So I'm hoping that some people on this list know more than they've posted so
far.
Here's my list of criteria:
-- I fire to Cone 6 oxidation, but the ability to fire to Cone 10 would be
nice (but not required)
-- We have a 60-amp single-phase 220 circuit
-- I do a lot of glaze experimentation so I need to control glaze firings
precisely, including soaking times and cool down times for semi-matte glazes.
-- Yet I need to do many firings largely unattended because my studio is 20
min drive from my house / office and I can't stay there 11 hours at a time.
-- Minimum of 7 cu. ft, Maximum of 11 cu. ft. 23" diameter preferred so I can
re-use my kiln furniture.
-- But: I'm willing to try a front-loading kiln or oval if it makes a big
difference in real capacity or firings.
-- I plan to put a vac-u-vent or fume vent on it, so pre-drilled is nice.
-- Everything else being equal, I wouldn't mind a super-insulated kiln to earn
my green points.
-- My studio is in San Francisco so I'd rather not ship from the East Coast.
Obviously, given the above, quality and reliability of the electronic
controller are key, and that's something I've had a lot of trouble finding
any independant information on. I'm looking at Axner, Paragon, L&L, Skutt,
Olympic, Bailey's ... pretty much the whole range of kils available in the
US. Axner has a nice sale going on right now, but I don't know how good
their kilns are.
While we're at it, any thoughts on the Vac-U-Vent vs. the Bailey Fume Vent?
(and no, as much as I want to, I can't have/use a gas kiln)
--
The Fuzzy Chef
San Francisco
Patty Kaliher on sun 19 aug 07
I love L&L. Controller lets me fire down. They offer two thicknesses,
choose the thicker. The manual has been a great help.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Josh Berkus
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 3:16 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Shopping for an electric kiln -- advice?
Clayart folks,
I'm planning on replacing my battered old Skutt with a new electric kiln
with
an electronic controller. Since I can afford anything under $3000, I have
quite a few choices. I've been mining the CLAYART archives for discussions
of electric kiln quality, but what's there is generally not terrifically
current and there is very little discussion of electronic controllers.
So I'm hoping that some people on this list know more than they've posted so
far.
Here's my list of criteria:
-- I fire to Cone 6 oxidation, but the ability to fire to Cone 10 would be
nice (but not required)
-- We have a 60-amp single-phase 220 circuit
-- I do a lot of glaze experimentation so I need to control glaze firings
precisely, including soaking times and cool down times for semi-matte
glazes.
-- Yet I need to do many firings largely unattended because my studio is 20
min drive from my house / office and I can't stay there 11 hours at a time.
-- Minimum of 7 cu. ft, Maximum of 11 cu. ft. 23" diameter preferred so I
can
re-use my kiln furniture.
-- But: I'm willing to try a front-loading kiln or oval if it makes a big
difference in real capacity or firings.
-- I plan to put a vac-u-vent or fume vent on it, so pre-drilled is nice.
-- Everything else being equal, I wouldn't mind a super-insulated kiln to
earn
my green points.
-- My studio is in San Francisco so I'd rather not ship from the East Coast.
Obviously, given the above, quality and reliability of the electronic
controller are key, and that's something I've had a lot of trouble finding
any independant information on. I'm looking at Axner, Paragon, L&L, Skutt,
Olympic, Bailey's ... pretty much the whole range of kils available in the
US. Axner has a nice sale going on right now, but I don't know how good
their kilns are.
While we're at it, any thoughts on the Vac-U-Vent vs. the Bailey Fume Vent?
(and no, as much as I want to, I can't have/use a gas kiln)
--
The Fuzzy Chef
San Francisco
____________________________________________________________________________
__
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William & Susan Schran User on sun 19 aug 07
On 8/19/07 3:16 PM, "Josh Berkus" wrote:
> Obviously, given the above, quality and reliability of the electronic
> controller are key, and that's something I've had a lot of trouble findin=
g
> any independant information on. I'm looking at Axner, Paragon, L&L, Skut=
t,
> Olympic, Bailey's ... pretty much the whole range of kils available in th=
e
> US. Axner has a nice sale going on right now, but I don't know how good
> their kilns are.
>=20
> While we're at it, any thoughts on the Vac-U-Vent vs. the Bailey Fume Ven=
t?
My 2=A2 -=20
My first vote goes to L&L, because I'm biased and use L&L's at home and in
the school studio. They are easy to maintain & repair. My kiln from the
early 80's is still chugging along.
My second vote goes to Skutt, but be sure to get their newer bolt connector=
s
and not the crimp connectors.
These choices are also based on the fact that both manufacturer's use
Bartlett controllers, simply a preference on my part.
My third choice is Paragon because they make a fine product and Arnold
Howard is here to answer your questions.
All three have decent support services.
--=20
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Jim Willett on mon 20 aug 07
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:16:07 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
>Clayart folks,
>
>I'm planning on replacing my battered old Skutt with a new electric kiln
with
>an electronic controller. Since I can afford anything under $3000, I have
>quite a few choices. I've been mining the CLAYART archives for
discussions
>of electric kiln quality, but what's there is generally not terrifically
>current and there is very little discussion of electronic controllers.
>
>So I'm hoping that some people on this list know more than they've posted
so
>far.
>
Hey Josh,
We have to put in our vote for the Cone Art kilns. Not just because they
are made in Canada but because we have two, a ten and a sixteen and they
have fired literally tons of pots for us over the past few years with
minimum fuss and upkeep. They come with Bartlett Controllers, have double
wall construction and all the other features you associate with a good
kiln. They are now (or once again) Tucker's Cone Art as the company has
returned to its roots after being part of Shimpo for awhile.
We purchased ours through Plainsman Pottery Supply here in Edmonton and as
a result do not have the floor element. Our experience with a seven cubic
foot with the floor element was not too good as it was difficult to get
even heating, however I see the new Cone Arts have floor elements so that
problem must have been resolved.
Overall though you could do a lot worse than Cone Art.
http://www.coneartkilns.com/
Jim Willett
Out of the Fire Studio
http://www.outofthefirestudio.com
Randy O'Brien on mon 20 aug 07
I can only speak from experience about the Skutts. I think they are
reliable kilns. I have a 1027 with 2 1/2" brick and the 1227 with 3"
brick. The 2 1/2" brick casts off a lot more heat during the firing and
the lid is broken into 8 chunks held together by the metal band. It
occasionally drops crumbles of soft brick. The 3" 1227 holds its
heat much better and the lid is in great shape with only minor hairline
cracks. Go for the 3" brick.
I use the 23" full shelves on my 1227 and overhang the edges without a
problem, so you may be able to use you existing shelves on the
larger kiln.
Spend the extra money and get the wall mount controller. That way
when the controller goes out mid-firing, you can unplug it and finish
the firing manually. Also, you can still fire the kiln manually while
you wait for the parts to arrive. I have found that for the way I fire,
the contactor-relay in the controller lasts about 300 firings. Another
advantage is that you can still use the wall mount controller on your
next kiln. It will also give you added security by having a kiln sitter
and timer to shut off the kiln in addition to the controller. Keep in
mind the timer only works when the kiln is getting power from the
controller, so it doesn't measure actual time. But after a firing it
will be obvious how much time is measured, so you can set it
for just over that amount.
In 20 years I have never had a problem with the crimp element
connectors. Once I had to replace a switch (before I started using
controllers), and twice the plug that connects the rings has fried out,
but they have since changed the design eliminating that plug.
When I fired to cone 5, the elements used to last about 2 years.
I switched to earthenware temps 7 years ago and have not had
to replace the elements yet.
I haven't used either of the vents you mentioned, so can't comment
there.
Randy
Tucson, AZ
Josh Berkus on mon 20 aug 07
Randy,
> Spend the extra money and get the wall mount controller. That way
> when the controller goes out mid-firing, you can unplug it and finish
> the firing manually. Also, you can still fire the kiln manually while
> you wait for the parts to arrive. I have found that for the way I fire,
> the contactor-relay in the controller lasts about 300 firings. Another
> advantage is that you can still use the wall mount controller on your
> next kiln.
That's a very attractive option. Do wall-mount controllers give me the same
degree of control over timing & soak that built-in ones do?
Any recommendations on where to buy one? I've looked on mudinmind.com,
baileypottery.com, axner.com and bigceramicstore.com and nobody seems to sell
most brands ... Axner has the Paragon and the Orton and that's it.
Also, wall mounts seem to be manufactured by Skutt, Bartlett, Paragon, Orton,
and RampMaster. Any opinions?
--
The Fuzzy Chef
San Francisco
Elizabeth Priddy on mon 20 aug 07
Look into L&L kilns.
I have towo, have had three and sold one off to a student.
I have NEVER had to change the elements in my J18, manual control.
it is 18 years old.
I have the old style computer controlled large kiln and it also has had no
problems with weekly use for 10 years.
These kilns with the L shaped element holders are the best in the business
as far as I am concerned. I have heard bad stories about most other brands.
Just my opinion, YMMV.
E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
Natural Instincts Conference Information:
http://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
Randy O'Brien on mon 20 aug 07
Hi Josh,
The Skutt KM-1 is their wall mount controller. I believe it is
exactly the same as the ones attached to the kiln except it
uses one big relay instead of 3 smaller relays. Maybe that
is why it only lasts 300 firings. I bought both of mine from
Bennett's for around $500-$600 although it has been a few
years. I have no experience with any of the other brands so
I can't advise you there.
Randy
Tucson, AZ
>That's a very attractive option. Do wall-mount controllers give me the same
>degree of control over timing & soak that built-in ones do?
>
>Any recommendations on where to buy one? I've looked on mudinmind.com,
>baileypottery.com, axner.com and bigceramicstore.com and nobody seems to sell
>most brands ... Axner has the Paragon and the Orton and that's it.
>
>Also, wall mounts seem to be manufactured by Skutt, Bartlett, Paragon, Orton,
>and RampMaster. Any opinions?
>
>--
>The Fuzzy Chef
>San Francisco
>
>
>
>
>
Vince Pitelka on mon 20 aug 07
My own experience with toploader electrics is confined mostly to L&Ls. I
love them for institutional applications, because of the refractory element
holders. I think that those element holders make them among the best for
any studio use. They are the kilns that I generally recommend.
I missed part of this thread, and I noticed someone suggesting a
wall-mounted controller. I have had very little experience with
wall-mounted controllers - mostly in small kilns and furnaces where there is
only one heating zone to regulate. The early wall-mounted controllers
regulated the main supply line to the kiln, and turned the whole thing on
and off to control temperature climb, and thus the kiln tended to fire hot
at the top. The best built-in controller systems control two or three zones
separately, which gives much more even firings. I know that multi-zoned
controllers are more efficient and effective, and I am assuming that the
newer wall-mounted controllers are multi-zoned. I'd appreciate any
information on this.
I am assuming that the reason someone recommended a wall-mounted controller
was to get the unit away from the heat. That does sound like a good idea,
although I must report that we have had no problems at all with the
contollers in our L&L EasyFire kilns. We started replacing the old
kiln-sitter kilns six or seven years ago, and now have only programmable
kilns, and they have always worked perfectly (knock on wood). Apparently,
they are well insulated from excessive heat on the L&Ls.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on mon 20 aug 07
> I am assuming that the reason someone recommended a wall-mounted
> controller
> was to get the unit away from the heat. That does sound like a
> good idea,
> although I must report that we have had no problems at all with the
> contollers in our L&L EasyFire kilns. We started replacing the old
> kiln-sitter kilns six or seven years ago, and now have only
> programmable
> kilns, and they have always worked perfectly (knock on wood).
> Apparently,
> they are well insulated from excessive heat on the L&Ls.
> - Vince
Hi Vince,
I use a wall-mounted controller on a manual kiln because I can fire
the kiln manually if the controller has a problem. I also like the
fact that I have triple safety back-ups: the controller, the kiln
sitter, and the timer. I don't trust the controller to shut off the
kiln; I know people whose controllers failed and instead of turning
the kiln off, they tend to stick on "on" until the potter notices
that there's a problem. Headache!
I do get a slightly cooler bottom in the kiln (due to it only having
one thermocouple), but it hasn't been a problem for me. I have a
couple of glazes that like it a bit cooler and they go on the
bottom. My only real problem with the wall-mount has been
remembering to push in the plunger on the kiln sitter!
Lynn
Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
liz gowen on tue 21 aug 07
I have a wall mount Orton controller with 3 type s thermocouples. I am =
very
happy with it. I also have an underground cable that runs from my kiln =
room
to my living room where I can watch the temp rise on each thermocouple =
and
the % power needed per level. Helps let you know when the elements are
wearing out or if the computer shuts off I can restart it without much =
lost
time and temp. Jim at Orton was quite helpful matching it to my L&L =
kiln.
There are three female ends that plug into the male ends from each tier =
to
control separately. I plan on replacing my current L&L with one with the
thicker brick since my electric per kwh fee is 14c per kwh instead of =
the
7.2 I was being charged in NJ.( Time for solar). I will get a manual one
again so I can use the Orton controller on it as well.
The cost difference is not that great for one with a controller and
one without but since I purchased the extra program to hook up to my
computer I'd like to keep my current controller.If I can provide any =
further
info let me know
Liz Gowen
Subject: Re: Shopping for an electric kiln -- advice?
Randy,
> Spend the extra money and get the wall mount controller. That way when =
> the controller goes out mid-firing, you can unplug it and finish the=20
> firing manually. Also, you can still fire the kiln manually while you=20
> wait for the parts to arrive.=20
Rosanne Sloane on thu 23 aug 07
Hi Josh,=0A=0AI have had Olympic Kilns for years, whom happen to be the man=
ufacturer of the Axner Super Kilns. I started out on their Test Kiln and gr=
aduated to their Freedom Kiln 2327HE. =0A=0AI found for the money the Freed=
om 2827HE kiln offer Cone 10 and a 10 Cu FT with the furntiure kit which in=
cludes stilts, amd a vent.=0A=0Ahttp://www.greatkilns.com/electric_freedom_=
kilns.cfm=0A=0AAxner.com has it listed for $2414 plus shipping and Bicerami=
cstore.com has it listed for $2847 with free shipping. Call Laguna, the old=
Axner, and see what the shipping would be. (800-843-7057)=0A=0Ahttp://www.=
axner.com/axner/equipment/olympic-freedom-kilns.php=0A=0Ahttp://www.bigcera=
micstore.com/Supplies/kilns/Olympic_Freedom.htm=0A=0AGood luck!=0A=0AExtrud=
er Girl=0ARosanne=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Josh Berkus <=
fuzzy@AGLIODBS.COM>=0ATo: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=0ASent: Sunday, August 1=
9, 2007 3:16:07 PM=0ASubject: Shopping for an electric kiln -- advice?=0A=
=0A=0AClayart folks,=0A=0AI'm planning on replacing my battered old Skutt w=
ith a new electric kiln with=0Aan electronic controller. Since I can affor=
d anything under $3000, I have=0Aquite a few choices. I've been mining the=
CLAYART archives for discussions=0Aof electric kiln quality, but what's th=
ere is generally not terrifically=0Acurrent and there is very little discus=
sion of electronic controllers.=0A=0ASo I'm hoping that some people on this=
list know more than they've posted so=0Afar.=0A=0AHere's my list of criter=
ia:=0A-- I fire to Cone 6 oxidation, but the ability to fire to Cone 10 wou=
ld be=0Anice (but not required)=0A-- We have a 60-amp single-phase 220 circ=
uit=0A-- I do a lot of glaze experimentation so I need to control glaze fir=
ings=0Aprecisely, including soaking times and cool down times for semi-matt=
e glazes.=0A-- Yet I need to do many firings largely unattended because my =
studio is 20=0Amin drive from my house / office and I can't stay there 11 h=
ours at a time.=0A-- Minimum of 7 cu. ft, Maximum of 11 cu. ft. 23" diamet=
er preferred so I can=0Are-use my kiln furniture.=0A-- But: I'm willing to =
try a front-loading kiln or oval if it makes a big=0Adifference in real cap=
acity or firings.=0A-- I plan to put a vac-u-vent or fume vent on it, so pr=
e-drilled is nice.=0A-- Everything else being equal, I wouldn't mind a supe=
r-insulated kiln to earn=0Amy green points.=0A-- My studio is in San Franci=
sco so I'd rather not ship from the East Coast.=0A=0AObviously, given the a=
bove, quality and reliability of the electronic=0Acontroller are key, and t=
hat's something I've had a lot of trouble finding=0Aany independant informa=
tion on. I'm looking at Axner, Paragon, L&L, Skutt,=0AOlympic, Bailey's ..=
. pretty much the whole range of kils available in the=0AUS. Axner has a n=
ice sale going on right now, but I don't know how good=0Atheir kilns are.=
=0A=0AWhile we're at it, any thoughts on the Vac-U-Vent vs. the Bailey Fume=
Vent?=0A=0A(and no, as much as I want to, I can't have/use a gas kiln)=0A=
=0A--=0AThe Fuzzy Chef=0ASan Francisco=0A=0A_______________________________=
_______________________________________________=0ASend postings to clayart@=
lsv.ceramics.org=0A=0AYou may look at the archives for the list or change y=
our subscription=0Asettings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/=0A=0AMode=
rator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.=
=0A=0A=0A ____________________________________________________________=
________________________=0ALuggage? GPS? Comic books? =0ACheck out fitting =
gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search=0Ahttp://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=3Doni_=
on_mail&p=3Dgraduation+gifts&cs=3Dbz
Marcia Selsor on thu 23 aug 07
When I relocated to Texas from Montana I replaced my Crucible
electric oval from Seattle pottery with a large oval Super Kiln from
Axner. They are built by Olympic to Axner specifications. I have a
big oval 30.25" x 42" x 31" and a medium size 18" x 27". I brought my
test kiln with me.
The Axners kilns have controllers, extra fiber insulation, thicker
brick lining, and ITC coating (I am a big fan of ITC regardless of
what others say)
Only complaint is the slow cooling. It took 36 hours for a bisque to
cool in the medium kiln. Now that IS insulated!! I am very satisfied
with them. And the service I got from Axner's was great.
Now I have to get my new pulley Raku kiln finished by tomorrow night
when Taylar and Marsha show up from Rockport. We'll be firing raku,
saggar, horse hair, feathers, and experimenting with chemical fuming
in saggars. It is my first visit from a fellow Clayarter to my
studio. I'll be firing horse plaques and Taylor is firing guinea
plaques. This refers to a discussion on clayart a few years back when
I first encountered Taylor, aka wirerabbit.
I feel like I have finally "arrived " in Texas! If I knew how to
blog, I'd post pictures of our weekend get together. Maybe taylor will.
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
Josh Berkus on thu 23 aug 07
Marcia,
> Only complaint is the slow cooling. It took 36 hours for a bisque to
> cool in the medium kiln. Now that IS insulated!! I am very satisfied
> with them. And the service I got from Axner's was great.
That's actually an asset as far as I'm concerned. I plan to do some
semi-matte glazes and slow cooling is required.
--
The Fuzzy Chef
San Francisco
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