Lee Love on mon 24 sep 07
On 9/24/07, Fred Parker wrote:
>
> The message for newbies to remember is this: if you want to learn how to
> do it well, do lots of it. Fifty is a good number for starts...
Here is another practice to keep your learning from making what you
make too precious. It is more like a tradtional apprenticeship:
Make one hundred mugs. Only keep the best 10.
--
Lee in Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
"We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant
facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For
a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and
falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people."
--JFK
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
Fred Parker on mon 24 sep 07
As before, this is for newbies. Everybody else knows it, probably has
said it many times but some fledgling potters probably didn't actually get
it.
A year or so ago I was up to my newbie ears in frustration anxiety about
mugs. Every one I made looked like crap. If I left the handles off that
improved them, but then they weren't actually mugs without handles...
Lots of potters on Clayart offered advice, and I even spent a couple of
days on top of Lookout Mountain with Mark Issenberg who offered to teach
me directly. Now I like my mugs. They could be better -- and in time
they will be -- but they are light years better than before.
I credit that to two factors: 1) a rich stream of diverse advice from
other potters, and 2) strict adherance to the Issenberg Directive. At the
time it didn't occur to me that the Directive was equally applicable to
other forms. It is. If you are a newbie and you follow it you will make
good pots. Period.
Making those first few mugs in Mark's studio was a real strain for me. It
was a little like working in a cheese factory while constipated. Sensing
my discomfort he offered this advice: "After you make fifty of them it
gets easier," he said.
I came home and set out to make fifty mugs. It took a few days, but
eventually I did it. It got easier. Now I make at least a dozen at a
time, and it's no big deal.
Since the mug adventure I have tried to learn other forms. The latest is
the dinner plate. As simple as it looks, it is (for me) one of the most
difficult forms to learn -- and by far the most unpleasant. At the lowest
point in the process I had to decide if I would just give up and move on
to something else or stick with it and do it. I remembered the Issenberg
Directive, tried it and, well you can guess the rest.
Now I actually enjoy making plates. I've only made forty or so, so far,
but it won't take long to get to fifty -- and beyond. Now my sights are
set on BIG platters and I am sure I will get there soon.
Unlike the Issenberg Pronouncement which caused much constriction of lower
sphincters on Clayart not long ago -- and for which there is no room for
negotiation or variance -- the Issenberg Directive allows for a variation
of plus or minus twenty percent. You might need to make sixty plates, or
you might get the job done with only forty.
The message for newbies to remember is this: if you want to learn how to
do it well, do lots of it. Fifty is a good number for starts...
Fred Parker
Tom at Hutchtel.net on tue 25 sep 07
>
> Unlike the Issenberg Pronouncement which caused much constriction of lower
> sphincters on Clayart not long ago -- and for which there is no room for
> negotiation or variance -- the Issenberg Directive allows for a variation
> of plus or minus twenty percent. You might need to make sixty plates, or
> you might get the job done with only forty.
>
> The message for newbies to remember is this: if you want to learn how to
> do it well, do lots of it. Fifty is a good number for starts...
>
> Fred Parker
>
Way back....maybe in the mid 90's, there was a one page article in CM...and
the author's name escapes me...Louis Katz maybe...where he said that to
really be able to throw a form takes 3,000 to 5,000 repetitions. Much of
throwing is a mechanical skill like swinging a golf club or playing an
instrument. My experience is that those numbers aren't far off. The
reason for group repitition, 10 or 20 at a time, is that's what it takes to
develop the muscle memory. Also, in clay, it takes that long to learn to
fell the underlying flow of the clay as you throw and be able to adjust to
changes in that flow.
Nobody ever said this was going to be easy.
If throwing is so easy, why aren't there more potters than golfers?
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
Lee Love on tue 25 sep 07
On 9/25/07, Tom at Hutchtel.net wrote:
> If throwing is so easy, why aren't there more potters than golfers?
I would guess that in some countries, China for example, there
are probably more total potters than golfers.
In most countries, I would bet there are more professional potters
than professional golfers.
In Japan, where golf has a high level of recreation interest,
there is even a higher level of pottery interest as a hobby. It is
much easier to set up to make pottery than it is to afford a golf
course membership. Most people in Japan can only afford to go to an
urban driving range.
Otherwise, I agree. Repetition in both the wheel and the
golf club develops skill.
______________________________________________________________________________
Lee in Minneapolis
"We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant
facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For
a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and
falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people."
--JFK
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
Maurice Weitman on tue 25 sep 07
At 08:15 -0500 on 9/25/07, Tom at Hutchtel.net wrote:
>If throwing is so easy, why aren't there more potters than golfers?
Good question. Some possibilities:
-- Golf is called a sport, recreation.
-- Golf is played on grass, outdoors.
-- Golfers wear tassels on their shoes.
-- Golfers appear on TV, in the news, get asked for autographs.
-- Golfers can make a shitload more money than potters.
-- Golfers don't have to worry about fires, building inspectors,
crazing, or silicosis.
-- The heaviest thing golfers have to carry is their clubs and they
have carts (and caddies) for that.
Regards,
Maurice, founding member of
FATTIES -- Fidelity And Truth Told In Every Subject
where we believe in these two vital principles to preserve the
usefulness of archive searching and digest threads:
KISS - Keep Its Subject the Same
A subject header should be kept as is, completely, no cute little
changes if the topic is the same.
BUT... when you change the topic
MASTIM - Match A Subject To Its Message
A subject header should be changed if the topic of your message is
different from the original message.
Tony on wed 26 sep 07
And if the best 10 aren't good enough?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Newbie advice 2
> On 9/24/07, Fred Parker wrote:
>
> >
> > The message for newbies to remember is this: if you want to learn how to
> > do it well, do lots of it. Fifty is a good number for starts...
>
> Here is another practice to keep your learning from making what you
> make too precious. It is more like a tradtional apprenticeship:
>
> Make one hundred mugs. Only keep the best 10.
>
> --
> Lee in Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
>
> "We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant
> facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For
> a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and
> falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people."
> --JFK
>
> http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
>
Logan Johnson on wed 26 sep 07
Keep them anyway . Put them up in plain view on a shelf so you are embarrassed by them daily. This will encourage you to make better ones. Replace a bad one with a better one as often as possible & soon you won't be ashamed of what's on that shelf. This also shows you exactly how you're work is improving. That's what I did & still do. Just my .02
Now get-r-done !
Logan
Tony wrote: And if the best 10 aren't good enough?
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
>
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Logan Johnson
Yakima Valley Pottery & Supply
719 w. Nob Hill blvd.
Yakima Wa. 98902
(509) 469-6966
www.yakimavalleypottery.net
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Gary Navarre on sat 29 sep 07
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:40:31 -0500, Fred Parker wrote:
>I came home and set out to make fifty mugs. It took a few days, but
>eventually I did it. It got easier. Now I make at least a dozen at a
>time, and it's no big deal.
And if you can throw a dozen cups a day with a minimum retail value of
$10.00 for 10 months that cones to $36,000. Not saying I could or will try
that but I figured a days work would be throw the dozen, trim yesterdays,
put handles on the day before yesterdays, and when a couple dozen are dry
take a couple days to glaze. I remember a guy who, along with his Korean
wife and her mother, who would bring a kiln load of mugs they made at the
house and fire them in one of the Pot Shop's 30cuft kilns every few weeks.
Forget his name but years later I think I saw one of those goofy face with a
mustache mugs in Montgomery Wards but he musta sold the rights as they were
cast and from China. I bet he was smart enough to sell the design for a
heafty profit and move to Brazil where there is no golf. Stay in there eh!
G in da U.P.
Lee Love on sat 29 sep 07
On 9/29/07, Gary Navarre wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:40:31 -0500, Fred Parker wrote:
>
> >I came home and set out to make fifty mugs. It took a few days, but
> >eventually I did it. It got easier. Now I make at least a dozen at a
> >time, and it's no big deal.
>
> And if you can throw a dozen cups a day with a minimum retail value of
> $10.00 for 10 months that cones to $36,000.
I have been spending a couple days a week in New London at Craig
Edward's studio. He had a huge mug order that kept him busy all
summer. He completed it on Wednesday. He throws and keeps his
assistant busy (she puts on handles, presses medallions and
assembles), with the family coming in now and then to help too, with
different odds and ends.
The kind of production that makes skills instinctual. I have
great admiration for this work and the inspiring pots he fires in his
anagama. He can do it all!
--
Lee in Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
"We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant
facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For
a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and
falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people."
--JFK
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
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