rscorl on fri 23 jan 98
Clayarters,
I hope through the vast experience on this server that some of you will
find it in your clayhearts to HELP! I will try to keep this as brief as
possible but that may be hard. Excuse my rambling in advance. . .
In May of this year my wife and I will move to central Ohio to start a
pottery (aka Big Baby Head Pottery), organic garden, straw bale house,
composting toilet . . .let's just say a homestead of earthly delights.
It is an amazingly huge task because we want to do everything ourselves!
I am 38, been throwing 2 1/2 years mostly in college, and have read and
attended anything even mildly related to potting. Helped build an
Anagama and fired it with Paul Chaleff and Bruce Odell. I am a consumer
of knowledge. I got my first, brand new, hideous puke yellow, Brent CXC
today. I have four months.
Should I work only on my throwing skills and recycle everything I make
in the hope of getting a job as a production potter for a couple years
until we get a studio built???
OR
Should I try to produce as much as I possibly can (quality of course),
set up some shows, market to galleries, and get a part time job as a
hamburg flipper or slip caster or maybe give lessons in pottery to
kids???? until we get a studio built.
I can build a kiln as soon as we get there and I can probably find some
hovel to throw in but I don't know if that's a very good way to start a
business. Anecdotes anyone?
I forgot to mention that we will be living with In-laws (YIPES) until we
can build on our land. That's about one hour away. I GOTTA HAVE AN
INCOME IN THE MEANTIME!!!
I think that production potting would do me good or an apprenticeship
but I really want my own full-time business. Of course these alleged
'positions' may or may not be available in central Ohio so I'll probably
be flipping burgs one way or another (and I'm a Vegetarian!). I have a
history of retail management, antique show dealer, woodworker, house
painter, burg flipper, tutor . . .
The list is endless.
I am looking for any and all suggestions especially if you have been
through anything similar. I can confidently throw, produce, glaze, fire,
and market (my packing skills are limited to throwing items in the back
of my truck). I guess this is all mostly a question of logistics.
Thanks in advance,
Ron
soon to be . . . Big Baby Head Pottery
Wendy Rosen on sat 24 jan 98
Dear Ron,
You obviously have never heard the story about the potter who won $2
million dollars in the lottery... his friends asked him "what are you going
to do now?"... "I'm going to do all the retail craft fairs I can until the
money runs out, of course" Do a little of wholesale and pick those retail
fairs CAREFULLY... you can go broke doing too much of either without
getting a "handle" :> on the small problems that crop up daily... with any
business you grow a step at a time, getting to a plateau then taking a
breath and considering what the next step is... there are lots of forks in
the road (and even more potholes) May you find more of the former
(choices) and fewer of the latter... We'll be glad to help in any way!
Best Wishes,
Wendy
>
>Should I try to produce as much as I possibly can (quality of course),
>set up some shows, market to galleries, and get a part time job as a
>hamburg flipper or slip caster or maybe give lessons in pottery to
>kids???? until we get a studio built.
.........
>I am looking for any and all suggestions especially if you have been
>through anything similar. I can confidently throw, produce, glaze, fire,
>and market (my packing skills are limited to throwing items in the back
>of my truck). I guess this is all mostly a question of logistics.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Ron
>
>soon to be . . . Big Baby Head Pottery
*******************************************
Wendy Rosen
The Rosen Group
Niche & AmericanStyle Magazines
http://americanstyle.com
The Buyers Markets of American Craft
http://www.rosengrp.com
http://www.americancraft.com
3000 Chestnut Ave #304 Baltimore, MD 21211
Voice: 410/889-3093 Fax: 410/243-7089
*******************************************
David Hendley on sun 25 jan 98
My advice Ron, that you won't want to hear, is:
Wait.
I've done what you want to do.
To achieve success required years of planning.
Taking a que from a communist regieme, we adopted
"five year plans" to work towards our goal.
It took 2 "five year plans", or *10 years*, to finally
have everything in place.
If you have a good job, keep it, and save half your salary for
a few years. You'll need it to get a business started.
Get another job on weekends and save all the income from it.
You'll need it to live on, so you can spend time building your house.
Keep working on pottery in the evenings to gain more experience.
I promise you that living in a half finished house, working all day
everyday, and then attempting to work on the house at night
gets very old after the first 4 or 5 years. I have acquantences
who are still doing this after 12 years!
If you've read other things I've written on Clayart, you know
that I'm a true believer that you can do just about anything
you want to do.
And do it yourself.
But all courses of action require good planning.
And, as you say, this is an amazingly huge project
you are contemplating.
The time frame for something like this is years
and years, even decades.
Don't give up on the dream, but please don't make a move
until you have things stacked a little more in your favor.
If you are dead set on moving in May, at least find out about
jobs before you move. The prospect of finding a business that
hires production potters AND has an opening AND is near by
seems very remote.
Damn, I hate sounding like my father.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
http://www.sosis.com/hendley/david/
At 04:12 PM 1/23/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Clayarters,
>
> I hope through the vast experience on this server that some of you will
>find it in your clayhearts to HELP! I will try to keep this as brief as
>possible but that may be hard. Excuse my rambling in advance. . .
>
>In May of this year my wife and I will move to central Ohio to start a
>pottery (aka Big Baby Head Pottery), organic garden, straw bale house,
>composting toilet . . .let's just say a homestead of earthly delights.
>It is an amazingly huge task because we want to do everything ourselves!
>
>I am 38, been throwing 2 1/2 years mostly in college, and have read and
>attended anything even mildly related to potting. Helped build an
>Anagama and fired it with Paul Chaleff and Bruce Odell. I am a consumer
>of knowledge. I got my first, brand new, hideous puke yellow, Brent CXC
>today. I have four months.
>
>Should I work only on my throwing skills and recycle everything I make
>in the hope of getting a job as a production potter for a couple years
>until we get a studio built???
>
>OR
>
>Should I try to produce as much as I possibly can (quality of course),
>set up some shows, market to galleries, and get a part time job as a
>hamburg flipper or slip caster or maybe give lessons in pottery to
>kids???? until we get a studio built.
>
>I can build a kiln as soon as we get there and I can probably find some
>hovel to throw in but I don't know if that's a very good way to start a
>business. Anecdotes anyone?
>
>I forgot to mention that we will be living with In-laws (YIPES) until we
>can build on our land. That's about one hour away. I GOTTA HAVE AN
>INCOME IN THE MEANTIME!!!
>
>I think that production potting would do me good or an apprenticeship
>but I really want my own full-time business. Of course these alleged
>'positions' may or may not be available in central Ohio so I'll probably
>be flipping burgs one way or another (and I'm a Vegetarian!). I have a
>history of retail management, antique show dealer, woodworker, house
>painter, burg flipper, tutor . . .
>The list is endless.
>
>I am looking for any and all suggestions especially if you have been
>through anything similar. I can confidently throw, produce, glaze, fire,
>and market (my packing skills are limited to throwing items in the back
>of my truck). I guess this is all mostly a question of logistics.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Ron
>
>soon to be . . . Big Baby Head Pottery
>
>
KLeSueur on mon 26 jan 98
In a message dated 1/23/98 4:19:49 PM, you wrote:
<in the hope of getting a job as a production potter for a couple years
until we get a studio built???
OR
Should I try to produce as much as I possibly can (quality of course),
set up some shows, market to galleries, and get a part time job as a
hamburg flipper or slip caster or maybe give lessons in pottery to
kids???? until we get a studio built.
>>
I don't know how it is where you are living now, but you are moving to one of
the meanest areas of the country when it comes to working for another potter.
The midwest has more jealous, whining potters than anywhere else I've been. If
someone is kind enough to give you a place to learn to be a potter the poor
guy will have someone going up to every art fair director at every fair he
does complaining that "That guy is cheating. He has someone else making his
pots. You should throw him out of the show." Even if all you are doing is
mixing clay and glazes, helping to load kilns, and other things that have
nothing to do with his work just being there will jeopardize him.
During the five years I lived in Texas I did few shows. But every year I
traveled back to Ann Arbor to do the summer fair. I was shocked to find hear
the rumor that I had five "wet-backs" working for me and even more shocked at
how many people believed it.
I constantly get people who would like to come work for me just to learn to
make pots. And I would love to let them. But in this climate I have to turn
them down. It used to be that the best way to learn to be a potter was to go
work for one. But look at show applications and more and more you'll see a
line that says, "Those that have employees or apprentices need not apply."
It's a sad state of affairs.
This doesn't mean that I would discourage you from trying that route. If
someone is brave enough to hire you, maybe someone doing only wholesale, then
I'd say--jump on it.
Good luck
Kathi LeSueur
shelford on tue 27 jan 98
Ron -
I sympathize with your dream - it's one we've been pursuing (with our own
variations of course) for thirty years. Like David said, it takes time. If
you are determined to leap in on the schedule you have described, you need
to ask yourself a lot of questions and be sure your answers are REAL, not
intentions, dreams, etc. And question no. 1 is, are you in debt? Do you
own the land you are proposing to build on? Took us the first 20 of our
almost 30 years of partnership to get to a state of complete ownership, so
that whatever we did, we didn't have any monkeys on our backs. And that
meant reliable jobs at better than minimum wage. I only got into potting
about 8 years ago, so I haven't been trying to do it all on a clay income.
But we have done the build-it-yourself-at-night, work-during-the-day life,
and it doesn't leave a lot of time for eating and sleeping, and after
awhile, those things assume mammoth proportions...
That's not to say don't do it. We have had some great experiences, and
learned a huge amount, and we are living now exactly where we want to be.
But we did it step-by-step, by:
- getting our first piece of land on a personal loan (the land was not
mortgageable) that also covered the cost of a truck and the concrete.
(moved in with family - couldn't afford rent)
- poured the foundation, mortgaged it, bought the wood, built the frame,
mortgaged it, bought the finishing materials, etc etc. (moved into garage
on site)
- eight years later, the house was almost finished when we sold it and came
out ahead of the debt.
- moved out west, where prices were double what we had left, had to have two
mortgages. Got that half paid off, found the land we REALLY wanted in the
islands, bought that, back to two mortgages.
- poured everything and all our time into getting the debt paid off, while
substantially renovating (doubled the size) of the house we were in.
- finally cleared the debt, sold the house, moved into a town house, bought
building materials with the difference, and started building here on Thetis.
- sold the townhouse and moved here at the end of 1996.
- NOW, finally, I can devote my time to pottery and my husband to his own
consulting business, because if we fail, we can pick up the pieces and start
again, but we can stay here and we won't starve.
Dreams that last for 30 years are made of tough stuff.
Best wishes on yours.
- Veronica
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Clayarters,
>
> I hope through the vast experience on this server that some of you will
>find it in your clayhearts to HELP! I will try to keep this as brief as
>possible but that may be hard. Excuse my rambling in advance. . .
>
>In May of this year my wife and I will move to central Ohio to start a
>pottery (aka Big Baby Head Pottery), organic garden, straw bale house,
>composting toilet . . .let's just say a homestead of earthly delights.
>It is an amazingly huge task because we want to do everything ourselves!
>
>I am 38, been throwing 2 1/2 years mostly in college, and have read and
>attended anything even mildly related to potting. Helped build an
>Anagama and fired it with Paul Chaleff and Bruce Odell. I am a consumer
>of knowledge. I got my first, brand new, hideous puke yellow, Brent CXC
>today. I have four months.
>
>Should I work only on my throwing skills and recycle everything I make
>in the hope of getting a job as a production potter for a couple years
>until we get a studio built???
>
>OR
>
>Should I try to produce as much as I possibly can (quality of course),
>set up some shows, market to galleries, and get a part time job as a
>hamburg flipper or slip caster or maybe give lessons in pottery to
>kids???? until we get a studio built.
>
>I can build a kiln as soon as we get there and I can probably find some
>hovel to throw in but I don't know if that's a very good way to start a
>business. Anecdotes anyone?
>
>I forgot to mention that we will be living with In-laws (YIPES) until we
>can build on our land. That's about one hour away. I GOTTA HAVE AN
>INCOME IN THE MEANTIME!!!
>
>I think that production potting would do me good or an apprenticeship
>but I really want my own full-time business. Of course these alleged
>'positions' may or may not be available in central Ohio so I'll probably
>be flipping burgs one way or another (and I'm a Vegetarian!). I have a
>history of retail management, antique show dealer, woodworker, house
>painter, burg flipper, tutor . . .
>The list is endless.
>
>I am looking for any and all suggestions especially if you have been
>through anything similar. I can confidently throw, produce, glaze, fire,
>and market (my packing skills are limited to throwing items in the back
>of my truck). I guess this is all mostly a question of logistics.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Ron
>
>soon to be . . . Big Baby Head Pottery
>
>
___________________________________________
Veronica Shelford
e-mail: shelford@island.net
s-mail: P.O. Box 6-15
Thetis Island, BC V0R 2Y0
Tel: (250) 246-1509
Tom Wirt on wed 28 jan 98
Hi Ron,
First off, look up an article by Nancy Todd "Firing Up Your Business" in
the Jan 1989 Ceramics Monthly.
As an additional viewpoint/story, I've been living off pots exclusively
for about 3-1/2 years now. I didn't plan it this way...was going to ease
into it....but a corporate downsizing made it decision time. I thought I
threw ok at the time, but now know how far I had to go and how bad I
really was.
I had hobby potted for a few years maybe thrown 500 pots, and then done
one show, which went pretty good ($1400 in 3 days) Local, so there were
no costs. (I was still working at the time. Signed up for a couple more
shows the following spring and they went OK too. Then the axe dropped.
No more company paycheck. I set up a "pottery" in the basement and garage
and set to work. Signed up for whatever I could still get into at that
late date (June) and made pots as fast as I could (not very fast). That
was 1993. By the end of the year I was doing up to $600 per day in
shows. Prices were reasonable on the theory that 1) they weren't that
good and 2) I had to sell and throw to get better. By the end of '93 it
was obvious that the garage and basement wouldn't work for production
potting. Thus, in mid 94 the move to Minnesota.
By this time my partner Betsy, her 2 kids and I depended on pots alone
for income. The rest of my corporate severance, all my retirement, and
the profit from the sale of 2 houses went into remodelling part way an
old farmhouse, converting an equipment shed into a studio and, in 95
adding on a building and kiln shed and building a gas kiln.
I didn't skimp my way in in regard to buying quality equipment and doing
it right. But having good equipment and facilities are just about
critical when you don't have the skills. You can't waste time fighting
your equipment. I also paid for people to do work I could have done
myself. But, I figured I was better off throwing pots than pounding
nails. If I could throw more $$ pots per hour than the a job cost, then
I was ahead.
Now, after 30,000 or so pots, bowls are finally pretty good, mugs are ok,
tall forms are finally coming along...etc, etc. Prices have moved
up with quality so now we're comparable to most functional people. When
the number is noted on the list that you have to do a form 5,000
times before you actually begin to control it, it seems to be right.
THEN, you can begin to work on developing your "style". As someone signs
their posts with a Hamada quote...the technique must become transparent,
before you can really create.
I have the advantage that Betsy does all the glazing while I throw and
trim. It's sped the learning process, but I don't knowglazing very well.
In your post, you didn't mention if you've defined your "niche".
Functional, price range, who the target market is, etc. etc. And what
are your costs? Double any planned building and remodelling projections.
If you're going to jump in fast, you'd better do that homework up front,
and do a business plan so you know if youre making it as you go.
I know many don't do all that, and fly by the seat of their pants and
make it through anyway, so don't flame me. Each of us finds the path
that suits us and makes the journey.
A lot of people bought a lot of mediocre (but improving) pots from us.
Many of them knew what they were doing and supported us. Others were
entry level buyers who then went on to buy pots from other potters.
Since day one we built a mailing list (now over 5,000, needs trimming)
and many customers from that first show are still with us.
And once in a while when the whole thing seems overwhelming, or I look at
how much there is still to learn, and how many pots are needed for the
next show or order, I walk out on the studio porch look over the field to
the lake, and wonder why I stayed at a desk so long? Wouldn't trade it
for the world. And all the people here on clayart who have helped make
it possible (along with a few customers and mom, Hi, Mom!)
Sorry this rambled Ron, and list. It's meant to encourage you to take
the leap. You'll never be able to predict all the things that will
happen. Oh yes, find a bank that understands small and seasonal
business. An Ag/business one is best.
Good Luck!
Tom Wirt
Clay Coyote Pottery
Hutchinson, MN
claypot@hutchtel.net
Robert Katz on fri 30 jan 98
Ron,
I think you should visit with Bruce Odell. Ask his advice. He is one of
the few people I know that seems to be able to make a living as a potter.
He strikes me as honest & sincere & has carved out a place for himself in a
small, rural town.
Vicki Katz
Katz Creek Pottery
Sugar Land, TX
At 04:12 PM 1/23/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Clayarters,
>
> I hope through the vast experience on this server that some of you will
>find it in your clayhearts to HELP! I will try to keep this as brief as
>possible but that may be hard. Excuse my rambling in advance. . .
>
>In May of this year my wife and I will move to central Ohio to start a
>pottery (aka Big Baby Head Pottery), organic garden, straw bale house,
>composting toilet . . .let's just say a homestead of earthly delights.
>It is an amazingly huge task because we want to do everything ourselves!
>
>I am 38, been throwing 2 1/2 years mostly in college, and have read and
>attended anything even mildly related to potting. Helped build an
>Anagama and fired it with Paul Chaleff and Bruce Odell. I am a consumer
>of knowledge. I got my first, brand new, hideous puke yellow, Brent CXC
>today. I have four months.
>
>Should I work only on my throwing skills and recycle everything I make
>in the hope of getting a job as a production potter for a couple years
>until we get a studio built???
>
>OR
>
>Should I try to produce as much as I possibly can (quality of course),
>set up some shows, market to galleries, and get a part time job as a
>hamburg flipper or slip caster or maybe give lessons in pottery to
>kids???? until we get a studio built.
>
>I can build a kiln as soon as we get there and I can probably find some
>hovel to throw in but I don't know if that's a very good way to start a
>business. Anecdotes anyone?
>
>I forgot to mention that we will be living with In-laws (YIPES) until we
>can build on our land. That's about one hour away. I GOTTA HAVE AN
>INCOME IN THE MEANTIME!!!
>
>I think that production potting would do me good or an apprenticeship
>but I really want my own full-time business. Of course these alleged
>'positions' may or may not be available in central Ohio so I'll probably
>be flipping burgs one way or another (and I'm a Vegetarian!). I have a
>history of retail management, antique show dealer, woodworker, house
>painter, burg flipper, tutor . . .
>The list is endless.
>
>I am looking for any and all suggestions especially if you have been
>through anything similar. I can confidently throw, produce, glaze, fire,
>and market (my packing skills are limited to throwing items in the back
>of my truck). I guess this is all mostly a question of logistics.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Ron
>
>soon to be . . . Big Baby Head Pottery
>
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