INA (Richard J. Murphy) on sat 16 jan 99
I need some advice. I am setting up a studio at home to free myself from the
difficulties of using the communal facilities at the local art centre. I
want to buy a top-loading electric kiln; 4 cubic feet size, to fire to cone
10. It will be sited outside in my non-air-conditioned garage. Here in the
United Arab Emirates, the weather from May thru Oct is extreme; well over
110F with 80-90% humidity. I would want a Dawson kiln sitter and limit
timer on the kiln for use in the summer and a detachable computer
controller for the "winter" when I am busiest anyway. Would it be advisable
to get a vent for underneath the kiln, preferably one that's compatible
with the controller?
From various catalogues I have come up the following names. Any thoughts on
these? Any other suggestions?
Kilns: L&L's J18X, Olympic 2318H, and Skutt 1018
Controllers: L&L's Dyna-Trol, Olympic's computer controller (brand?), Orton
Autofire, and Skutt Kiln Master
Vents: L&L's Vent-Torr , Orton Kiln Vent, and Skutt Envirovent
And what about kiln furniture? What configuration (e.g. all half shelves)
post sizes and varieties( e.g. 6 each 1"-6"), 1" thick corierite?
I am not a party to the local oil riches so prices do matter. BUT I am
wanting to make this investment worthwhile and lasting. No point in being
cheap and paying later. Sending bits back that don't work would be
expensive and inconvenient so durability and reliability are important.
Okay everyone, here's your chance to give advice. Thanks in advance. All
replies containing direct references to product names should come to me via
my e-mail address: richardm@emiratesbank.com
Theodore Banton on sun 17 jan 99
I will give you one piece of advice- dont fire to cone 10 with an electric
kiln. I know there are some companies that advertise a cone 10 electric, but
the lives of these kilns are extremely short. The maximum that one should
ever go with an electric is cone 8 and only on occassion.
However I do have a reccomendation for your kiln. Axner pottery supply
(www.axner.com) has a "Cone 10" kiln advertised. I know people who have fired
to cone 8 many times successfully. They can be built with any controller you
want, and Axner will even line the kiln with ITC 100, to strnghten the life of
the kiln
Ted in FLA
Tom Wirt on mon 18 jan 99
-----Original Message-----
From: Theodore Banton
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: Advice - Kiln Purchase
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I will give you one piece of advice- dont fire to cone 10 with an electric
>kiln. I know there are some companies that advertise a cone 10 electric,
but
>the lives of these kilns are extremely short. The maximum that one should
>ever go with an electric is cone 8 and only on occassion.
>
>However I do have a reccomendation for your kiln. Axner pottery supply
>(www.axner.com) has a "Cone 10" kiln advertised. I know people who have
fired
Ted, not sure where you're coming from on this, but it isn't really good
advice. Certainly anyone firing to c10 electric has to understand that it's
expensive electrically and breaks down the elements more quickly. Although
the ITC and maybe other coating products seem to dramatically lengthen
element life.
While we now fire c10 gas, for 4 years I made my living using purely
electrics and all to cone 10. A skutt 1027-3 and 2 Cone Arts 2327-10's.
We fired 2 x per week, almost every week, plus bisque in the same kilns.
First element sets lasted a year in each, after that the replacements
usually ran 6-9 months.
No other problems than an occasional switch. I probably don't recommend it
because of cost....better to formulate to c 6, but other than cost, there
is no reason I know of not to. Sure like to hear why you say it can't be
done. My observation is that bisqueing is harder on the kiln than glaze
firing because of all the corrosive crud that comes out and eats away at
metal parts
We dipped 1/2 the coils in one kiln in ITC (the metal coating?) and after
about 5 months of bisque (average 2 loads per week), the dipped elements are
still flexible while the uncoated ones are the normal crispy feeling.
Tom Wirt
PS....by accident, as I've described before, we took the Skutt to about c
15-16, 5 years ago, and it's still doing fine.
L&L Kiln Mfg on tue 19 jan 99
At 08:16 PM 1/17/99 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I will give you one piece of advice- dont fire to cone 10 with an electric
>kiln. I know there are some companies that advertise a cone 10 electric, but
>the lives of these kilns are extremely short. The maximum that one should
>ever go with an electric is cone 8 and only on occassion.
>
>However I do have a reccomendation for your kiln. Axner pottery supply
>(www.axner.com) has a "Cone 10" kiln advertised. I know people who have
fired
>to cone 8 many times successfully. They can be built with any controller you
>want, and Axner will even line the kiln with ITC 100, to strnghten the
life of
>the kiln
>
>Ted in FLA
>
Dear Ted -
I beg to differ with you on your point about electric Cone 10 kilns. We
have been making Cone 10 electric kilns for well over 30 years. We have
many customers who regularly fire to Cone 10. The firebrick in these kilns
does just fine at Cone 10 temperatures (all electric kiln manufactures in
the US use the same firebrick). Element design is very much as issue.
Kanthal A-1 and other similar alloys, which are used on Cone 10 kilns, is
operating at its very highest rated temperature when going to Cone 10.
Moreover, the element temperature is higher than the kiln temperature. How
much higher is a function of element and element holder design. Watt
density, which is the ratio of watts per square inch of element surface,
should be low. This keeps the element from getting too hot relative to the
kiln temperature. Most electric kiln manufactures insert their elements
into a groove that is routed into the insulating firebrick. The insulation
of the groove insulates the element from the kiln to some small extent. On
our kilns we insert the element in a hard ceramic element holder that my
father designed many years ago - a wonderful invention. This holder
presents only a thin hard ceramic barrier between the element and the kiln.
Logically this allows the element temperature to be lower relative to the
internal kiln temperature. The issue of element design is really the most
important issue when it comes to Cone 10 kilns. Greater insulation is nice
but not essential. Amount of power is critical and it is important for the
kiln not to be underpowered. But as far as kiln "life" this is really a
question of element life.
Stephen Lewicki
President
L&L Kiln Mfg Inc.
Phone: (610) 558-3899
Fax: (610) 558-3698
Email: steve@hotkilns.com
Lyn Packer on tue 19 jan 99
Hi Ted, I purchased my 4cuft electric kiln 2nd hand, I think, around
12years ago. I am pretty sure it is 25 years old. It gets around 15 - 20
gloss firings a year. And that is to Cone 9 approx, probably higher
sometimes. The elements have been replaced 3 times - just the ones that
needed replacing, although last time I did them all. I am very fond of my
kiln, we're real good friends. I have quite a few potter friends with
electric kilns who also fire to that cone/temp. I do acknowledge that firing
at that temp will shorten the life of your elements though. Regards, Lyn
lyn.packer@clear.net.nz
Euclid's Kilns & Elements on tue 19 jan 99
> I will give you one piece of advice- dont fire to cone 10 with an
electric
> kiln. I know there are some companies that advertise a cone 10 electric,
but
> the lives of these kilns are extremely short. The maximum that one
should
> ever go with an electric is cone 8 and only on occassion.
> Ted in FLA
Ted,
This advice seems a little extreme. Many of our customers choose to fire to
cone 10 consistently. It does shorten the life of some of the components,
mostly the elements, but there is not much difference in life expectency of
the kiln itself (provided the worn components are replaced as needed - as
with any kiln). Elements can be made 1 or 2 gauges heavier to help
compensate for the shorter life.
Kilns that are designed to go to cone 10 usually have a bit more power
built in. Cone 10 kilns should reach cone 10 without a struggle (to get
from 2300`F - 2380`F) - it`s this struggling, as well as the higher
temperature, that can also shorten life expectency of the elements.
No offence intended Ted, we can agree to differ.
Chris @
Euclid's Kilns and Elements
1-800-296-5456
Web Site: http://www.euclids.com
E-Mail: mail@euclids.com
Cameron Harman on wed 20 jan 99
I would like to second the comments made by Steve Lewicki. The
life of the kiln at cone 10 is highly dependent on the element
design. The fewer watts per square inch of element surface the
longer the life and the less insulated the elements are from the
kiln the lower the temperature they will operate.
For industrial kilns I design using strip instead of wire because
I can get very low watt densities, however, this is not a
practical design for the smaller kilns most frequently seen.
The element holders designed by L & L are a major contributor to
longer element life. If you have had trouble with life on kilns
fired to cone 10 look at these items before judging all kilns as
being bad.
Cameron
--
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Cameron G. Harman, Jr. 215-245-4040 fax 215-638-1812
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Ceramic Services, Inc 1060 Park Ave. Bensalem, PA 19020
get your free ezine: http://www.kilnman.com/ezine/ezine.html
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