Bobbi Bassett on thu 27 jan 00
To all my fellow full time potters
This is the one subject I haven't seen come up in discussion......or I've
missed it. As a self employed person, soon to be without dependent status on
health insurance, I have been investigating the situation. Panic is just
beginning to set in. I am finding if I had several employees it would be
easier. It's just me alone in the studio. I feel like I've entered a world
where discrimination is rampant......discrimination against VERY small
business. Anybody find any solutions? All suggestions
appreciated........greatly appreciated.
Bobbi in PA
Sunny, but WINDY COLD.
Kent / Pat on fri 28 jan 00
This is a good point that you bring up, Bobbi. You have several options. I
am somewhat of an expert in this area as I have spent 25 years as a health
insurance examiner. Please Listen up - all of you!
First of all, EVERY DEPENDENT is eligible for a COBRA EXTENSION OF THEIR
CURRENT INSURANCE, if they are loosing coverage through no fault of their
own (divorce, termination of employment other than just quitting your job,
etc.) You as a dependent have a certain amount of time after loss if
insurance to proceed with the paperwork, but it is available and IMHO
necessary to accept this option. In accepting it, you have a stop gap
method of continuing your insurance for several months until you can obtain
new insurance for yourself. This includes the concept of removing or
application of time against any pre-existing conditions the insurance
company may seek to impose in their contracts. It is required by law (US)
that this option be made available.
Meanwhile, check with many carriers. Most now have small group policies (1
or more employees). So if you have a tax # you may qualify. Also, Some
national small business associations will have policies available through
membership in their group at group rates.
Things may vary slightly from state to state, so check with your state
insurance commissioner's office or your insurance agent. Shop around.
Benefits are different for different levels of coverage. (for instance I am
53 and do not need OB coverage 8-) ).
Hope this helps
Pat Porter
pporter@4dv.net
Aurora CO USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobbi Bassett"
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:11 PM
Subject: Medical Insurance
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> To all my fellow full time potters
> This is the one subject I haven't seen come up in discussion......or I've
> missed it. As a self employed person, soon to be without dependent status
on
> health insurance, I have been investigating the situation. Panic is just
> beginning to set in. I am finding if I had several employees it would be
> easier. It's just me alone in the studio. I feel like I've entered a world
> where discrimination is rampant......discrimination against VERY small
> business. Anybody find any solutions? All suggestions
> appreciated........greatly appreciated.
>
> Bobbi in PA
> Sunny, but WINDY COLD.
Toni Yoder-LeBlanc on fri 28 jan 00
I was faced with the same problem three years ago. I opted for an individual
policy with Blue Cross. I set my deductable high at $1000 and this kept the
monthly cost down. I was insuring for the catostophic. In Oct. I injuried
by knee and required surgery, only to find out the the coverage was not what
it was represented to be. I was an insurance clerk for my family business
and felt very secure in the policy but only to late found out that I need to
read closer. I may be out shopping for a new policy soon.
toni
yoder pottery
David Hendley on fri 28 jan 00
As a potter who has always been on my own for medical
bills, I am most pleased with my 'Medical Savings Account'.
This system was made into law a few years ago.
Anticipating great popularity, there was a limit as to how
many people could join the program.
Well, surprise, it has been an unpopular flop, and only
a few hundred thousand people signed up.
Here's how it works:
You buy 'major medical insurance'. The premium is low,
but it is truly only for major medical expenses. My policy
doesn't pay a dime until a $4500 deductible per year
for the whole family is met.
Meanwhile, you can deposit a certain percentage of the
premium amount (about 200%) into a 'Medical Savings
Account'. This money is tax-free, a 100% deduction from
your income on your 1040 tax form, like a traditional IRA.
The account also grows tax-free. It can be put in a straight
savings account and earn interest, or can be invested in
stock funds.
The idea is that you can use this account to pay your
medical expenses until your deductible is reached. If you
don't need to use it, or choose to pay your medical expenses
yourself, not from the MSA account, it will grow to a significant
amount in a few years. Through the magic of compounding,
before long, you will, in essence, be 100% covered for any
medical expenses you owe, since your savings account will
be large enough to pay your costs each year before you reach
the high deductible, and still have enough left in it to keep
growing.
I also philosophically love this system because it makes
the individual once again responsible for their own medical
bills. One of the reasons medical costs are so high is because
hardly anyone has to actually pay their bills. Well, I have to
pay my bills, so I'm willing to shop around for medical services.
If everyone had a stake in keeping costs down because they
actually had to pay the bills, competition would be reintroduced
and prices would once again have some semblance to reality.
BTW, it's perfectly OK to ask for a better price for medical
services. When the provider knows that you will be paying
cash when the service is rendered, they are often willing to
lower the price. The variation in price from hospitals for
elective surgery is tremendous. If you arrange it ahead of time,
and the hospital knows they will be paid, you can often expect
to pay half the standard price. I know that I get rock-bottom
prices from all my doctors.
You might have heard Steve Forbes talking about MSAs for
everyone. I think it's a great idea and a refreshing relief from
all the politicians who want to increase interference that
will only serve to make medical care become even more
expensive.
The Medical Savings Account is not for everyone. If you
like to run to the doctor for every sniffle and don't want
to be bothered with how much things cost, forget this.
If you live a healthy lifestyle, are seldom sick, and know
about no/low cost remedies like homeopathy, and like to take
care of yourself, the MSA will be a good fit for you.
--
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: Bobbi Bassett
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 2:11 PM
Subject: Medical Insurance
| ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
| To all my fellow full time potters
| This is the one subject I haven't seen come up in discussion......or I've
| missed it. As a self employed person, soon to be without dependent status
on
| health insurance, I have been investigating the situation. Panic is just
| beginning to set in. I am finding if I had several employees it would be
| easier. It's just me alone in the studio. I feel like I've entered a world
| where discrimination is rampant......discrimination against VERY small
| business. Anybody find any solutions? All suggestions
| appreciated........greatly appreciated.
|
| Bobbi in PA
| Sunny, but WINDY COLD.
|
Lee Marshall on fri 28 jan 00
it's just me in the studio too. but my business is pottery and i am the
single employee. i cover myself and my husband who is also self employed.
tried all the biggies. ( blue cross, prudential, state farm) and the acc
program but they were all outragous.my insurance is a medical savings account
with a huge deductible $4000 but the premiums( $285 for two over 50 ) and
the money you put into the savings account are all pre tax. the co is Fortis.
the tn rep is david taylor. he can get you in touch with a rep where ever you
are .hm 615-834-3309 cell 615-374-1231.hope this helps
lee marshall
lmarsh1220@aol.com
NakedClay@aol.com on fri 28 jan 00
Hi Bobby!
I once contacted an insurance agent, who suggested that I call myself "a
one-person group." He then sold me inexpensive group health insurance! This
was many years ago, when I was younger, and cheaper to insure. I don't know
if that will work in your situation, but it may be worth a try.
Another idea is to contact other potters who are in the same predicament, and
form a group. Some insurance companies may overlook the part which says
"employees," if everyone is doing the same kind of work. That's how the Fine
Arts Guild I once belonged to procured insurance for its members.
I wish you the best in this endeavor!
Milton NakedClay@AOL.COM
Wendy Hampton on fri 28 jan 00
Panic is setting in for good reason. We have been self employed for 14 years
and recently changed medical insurance. It turned out to be a bad system so
we tried to go back but there is no one out there insuring individuals any
more. The only insurance we can get in the state of Washington is managed
health care. (sometimes called managed death care). It is a terrible
situation and if you find out any information I would be glad to hear it.
Thanks
Wendy
Liz Gowen on sat 29 jan 00
I agree with the shopping for the best price for medical services. Most of
them are quite overbilled and will accept considerably less. Have you had
any luck in getting the cost of prescriptions decreased. This is one area
they don't seem to want to budge on. The pharmacy was ready to charge me
$400.00 for prescriptions if I paid cash but having Blue Cross dropped the
COST down to 250.00 ( I pay up front and they reimburse a portion, so this
was what they were charging Blue Cross.) They say it is because they give
Blue cross a better rate. Doesn't seem right.
I have also looked into self insurance and was told they would write for
a business if it had 2 employees or more. The agent said in Pa. many folks
count the husband and the wife as 2 separate employees and that works. Still
doesn't help for the 1 person studios like mine.
Liz Gowen
-----Original Message-----
From: David Hendley
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Friday, January 28, 2000 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Medical Insurance
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>As a potter who has always been on my own for medical
>bills, I am most pleased with my 'Medical Savings Account'.
>This system was made into law a few years ago.
>Anticipating great popularity, there was a limit as to how
>many people could join the program.
>Well, surprise, it has been an unpopular flop, and only
>a few hundred thousand people signed up.
>
>Here's how it works:
>You buy 'major medical insurance'. The premium is low,
>but it is truly only for major medical expenses. My policy
>doesn't pay a dime until a $4500 deductible per year
>for the whole family is met.
>Meanwhile, you can deposit a certain percentage of the
>premium amount (about 200%) into a 'Medical Savings
>Account'. This money is tax-free, a 100% deduction from
>your income on your 1040 tax form, like a traditional IRA.
>The account also grows tax-free. It can be put in a straight
>savings account and earn interest, or can be invested in
>stock funds.
>
>The idea is that you can use this account to pay your
>medical expenses until your deductible is reached. If you
>don't need to use it, or choose to pay your medical expenses
>yourself, not from the MSA account, it will grow to a significant
>amount in a few years. Through the magic of compounding,
>before long, you will, in essence, be 100% covered for any
>medical expenses you owe, since your savings account will
>be large enough to pay your costs each year before you reach
>the high deductible, and still have enough left in it to keep
>growing.
>
>I also philosophically love this system because it makes
>the individual once again responsible for their own medical
>bills. One of the reasons medical costs are so high is because
>hardly anyone has to actually pay their bills. Well, I have to
>pay my bills, so I'm willing to shop around for medical services.
>If everyone had a stake in keeping costs down because they
>actually had to pay the bills, competition would be reintroduced
>and prices would once again have some semblance to reality.
>BTW, it's perfectly OK to ask for a better price for medical
>services. When the provider knows that you will be paying
>cash when the service is rendered, they are often willing to
>lower the price. The variation in price from hospitals for
>elective surgery is tremendous. If you arrange it ahead of time,
>and the hospital knows they will be paid, you can often expect
>to pay half the standard price. I know that I get rock-bottom
>prices from all my doctors.
>You might have heard Steve Forbes talking about MSAs for
>everyone. I think it's a great idea and a refreshing relief from
>all the politicians who want to increase interference that
>will only serve to make medical care become even more
>expensive.
>
>The Medical Savings Account is not for everyone. If you
>like to run to the doctor for every sniffle and don't want
>to be bothered with how much things cost, forget this.
>If you live a healthy lifestyle, are seldom sick, and know
>about no/low cost remedies like homeopathy, and like to take
>care of yourself, the MSA will be a good fit for you.
>
>--
>David Hendley
>Maydelle, Texas
>hendley@tyler.net
>http://www.farmpots.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Bobbi Bassett
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 2:11 PM
>Subject: Medical Insurance
>
>
>| ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>| To all my fellow full time potters
>| This is the one subject I haven't seen come up in discussion......or I've
>| missed it. As a self employed person, soon to be without dependent status
>on
>| health insurance, I have been investigating the situation. Panic is just
>| beginning to set in. I am finding if I had several employees it would be
>| easier. It's just me alone in the studio. I feel like I've entered a
world
>| where discrimination is rampant......discrimination against VERY small
>| business. Anybody find any solutions? All suggestions
>| appreciated........greatly appreciated.
>|
>| Bobbi in PA
>| Sunny, but WINDY COLD.
>|
>
Pottery by Dai on sat 29 jan 00
I belong to the local Chamber of Commerce, and they offer various good
deals, including insurance. Don't know the particulars, as we are covered
under my husband's work package, but it looked pretty good when I scanned
it. You should be able to cover your spouse as well, if you have one,
unless he/she is already covered elsewhere. Belonging to the Chamber has
other benefits, too---better Visa and MasterCard rates, long distance phone
rates (although our local Telus is pretty competitive now), social
"business-after-hours" eves for networking (I'm beginning to hate that word,
it's so...impersonal, I guess; makes us sound like we're computers),
seminars, etc. Check it out.
Dai in Kelowna.
potterybydai@home.com
I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left.
Gerald Durbin on sat 29 jan 00
There are several possible sources for medical insurance. Usually the local
Chamber of Commerce has a plan that individuals can join that is reasonable.
Another avenue is professional associations sometimes have medical coverage.
These are two of the avenues that I have used in the past while consulting.
Katie Cordrey on sat 29 jan 00
Wendy,
The managed health care available to individuals in the State of Washington
is the very SAME Blue Cross health insurance large corporations purchase for
their employees. All health insurance companies are moving toward managed
care. It has its pros and cons and I hold some fairly strong opinions about
it, so will refrain from my usual diatribe. It can be difficult to get and
it's expensive!
Some self-employed friends of mine have been able to get very good coverage
using Richard Ek (agent)email: Richard@worthingtoninsurance.com
for $280/mo for the two of them, reasonable deductible, 80/20 co-pay on
office calls and prescriptions.
Here are some Internet links that might help:
ALLIANCE FOR AFFORDABLE SERVICES
Health Insurance offered at group rates for the individual, family,
self-employed, and small business owner in Washington State
http://www.allianceservices.net/
HEALTH INSURANCE QUOTES AGENCIES IN YOUR STATE SPECIALIZING IN MEDICAL
INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR THE SELF EMPLOYED SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS, INDIVIDUALS
AND FAMILIES. (This service is not yet available in all states... WA for
example.)
http://www.healthquote-usa.com/1.htm or http://www.healthquote-usa.com/
YOUR FREE HEALTH INSURANCE QUOTE HERE!
Complete the KwikQuote form below: Information submitted will NOT be given
out or sold to ANYONE
other than those legally able to provide your Kwikquote
http://www.kwikquote.com/
Artists and Health Insurance (a good article from one of my favorite
Internet places, about.com. There are also links to more information about
this subject.)
http://artistexchange.about.com/arts/artistexchange/library/weekly/aa041699.
htm?rnk=r5&terms=medical+insurance+for+self-employed
SOME HELPFUL HINTS
http://www.kiplinger.com/retreport/archives/premium/hcare2.html
Good Luck!
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
Of Wendy Hampton
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 12:20 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: Medical Insurance
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Panic is setting in for good reason. We have been self employed for 14
years
and recently changed medical insurance. It turned out to be a bad system so
we tried to go back but there is no one out there insuring individuals any
more. The only insurance we can get in the state of Washington is managed
health care. (sometimes called managed death care). It is a terrible
situation and if you find out any information I would be glad to hear it.
Thanks
Wendy
Tom Wirt on sat 29 jan 00
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Medical Insurance
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> it's just me in the studio too. but my business is pottery and i am the
> single employee. i cover myself and my husband who is also self employed.
> tried all the biggies. ( blue cross, prudential, state farm) and the acc
> program but they were all outragous.my insurance is a medical savings
account
> with a huge deductible $4000 but the premiums( $285 for two over 50 ) and
> the money you put into the savings account are all pre tax. the co is
Fortis.
> the tn rep is david taylor. he can get you in touch with a rep where ever
you
> are .hm 615-834-3309 cell 615-374-1231.hope this helps
> lee marshall
> lmarsh1220@aol.com
Another approach.
First off.....if you're buying your own health insurance (self-employed)
figure that it's going to be expensive. There's no such thing as "cheap"
anymore.
Second, even if you work alone, does your spouse/partner help you and if so,
can you legitimately pay the other for that help? If so, you may be able to
form a small "group" of 2. There is no such thing as a group plan for one.
Now, you need to get ahold of a company in Wisconsin called AgPlan/BizPlan.
1-800-422-4661, www.tasconline.com. As a third party, they can help you
form, for IRS purposes, an employer-employee relationship. Once you have
done that, you may now be eligible to form a small group. Here in
Minnesota, we got a policy from Blue Cross/Blue Shield for Betsy, me and her
2 kids. It runs about $430 per month-$500 deductible-80/20 co-pay. I
believe Minnesota has some of the most expensive insurance in the country.
Another advantage is that you can pay for your employees out of pocket
medical expenses and write them off as business expenses.
I'm making the assumption that if AgPlan/BizPlan works in MN, they can work
in other states as well.
HTH
Tom Wirt
Tom Wirt
Eydie DeVincenzi on sun 30 jan 00
------------------
Message text written by Ceramic Arts Discussion List
=3E It's just me alone in the studio. I feel like I've entered a world
where discrimination is rampant......discrimination against VERY small
business. Anybody find any solutions? All suggestions
appreciated........greatly appreciated.
=3C
Bobbi:
Yes indeed, there has been a great deal of discrimination against the
one-person company. No matter what one thinks of people like President and
Mrs. Clinton, one thing they have done is pressure the =22medical =
industry=22
to address such discrimination. It has been especially hard because I
refused to go with an HMO. I finally was able to buy a medical policy
for a group-of-one ... at a somewhat reasonable price. I have CapitalCare
BlueCross Blue Shield. I pay =24350/mn. I think all the BC/BS companies =
are
different, state to state. The reason I want group-of-one insurance was
that I wanted my company to pay for it with pre-tax dollars. You could of
course, always get a personal policy -- and I think it may be cheaper.
Eydie in Maryland where the next storm is about to lay waste to our
routines.
Connie Christensen on sun 30 jan 00
Hi Bobbi
Here's another idea of a way to get insurance. Years ago I lived on
the Oregon coast in a small community that had a volunteer fire
department. To make a long story short, I volunteered and an
unexpected benefit of being on the department was free medical
insurance (another benefit was that there were just a couple of us
women and a whole lot of men). I learned a lot too, got to crawl
through burning buildings (way cool), was trained to be an emergency
medical technician, drove fire trucks, drove the ambulance, learned
how to rappel (sp?) down cliffs and of course learned how to put out
fires.
It didn't take a lot of my time and I got a lot out of it - medical
insurance and a lot of training for free. Of course you have to be
able to drop what you're doing and go put out a fire when your beeper
goes off.
So those of you who live in a community with a volunteer fire
department and have the interest and time, it might be worth checking
out.
Connie Christensen
Lakewood, CO
Evan Dresel on mon 31 jan 00
Don't get me started on the disgusting U.S. medical system! I have good
medical insurance and if I was offered an even trade for the Canadian
system, I'd take it. Ok you did get me started. The simplest band-aid
the US government could apply is to let everyone write off medical
expenses off the top on the taxes. None of this, "did I earn enough and
pay enough to itemize or should I take the standard deduction" bull.
Just a simple system where all out-of-pocket medical expenses are paid
with pre-tax dollars.
But anyway... One possibility is to see if you can employ yourself. I
don't know all the ins and outs of that, but there are payroll services
like Pay Plus that offer group insurance as part of the package. In
essence you pay them to employ your workers (you). That's what my
church does for our 1.5 employees. There may be other ways of achieving
the same thing. How about getting that potters association going and
offering group insurance through the association? I believe that works
for the association of well drillers.
Good luck and stay healthy!
-- Evan in typically cloudy W. Richland WA who wants to know if he can
claim the veterinarian as a dependent on my taxes.
Wendy Hampton wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Panic is setting in for good reason. We have been self employed for 14 years
> and recently changed medical insurance. It turned out to be a bad system so
> we tried to go back but there is no one out there insuring individuals any
> more. The only insurance we can get in the state of Washington is managed
> health care. (sometimes called managed death care). It is a terrible
> situation and if you find out any information I would be glad to hear it.
> Thanks
> Wendy
Eydie DeVincenzi on mon 31 jan 00
------------------
Message text written by Ceramic Arts Discussion List
=3E The reason I want group-of-one insurance was
that I wanted my company to pay for it with pre-tax dollars. You could of
course, always get a personal policy -- =3C
A Clayarter reminded me that I not everyone can get pre-tax benefit for
medical insurance. I should have clarified that I established myself as a
C-Corp.
Sorry.
Eydie DeVincenzi
AssisTech, Inc.
Assistive Technology for Special Needs
Cantello Studios on thu 4 apr 02
David Hendley wrote:
'The great thing is, you are now in control of your health
care costs. "
We took control of our health care cost with our first child. Paid the
midwives with a dinnerware set, which took care of the $1000.00 deductible.
Labored at home until midnight than went to the hospital. Did not want to
get there before 12:00pm or would be charged for that day also. Didn't
accept the "admit kit" you know the barf pan, water pitcher etc. cost
$80.00. Did need the pan that morning, oh well. The blanket on the bed
worked okay. : ) And I saved $80.00. Made monthly payments of $25.00 to
the hospital until Colin was 4. I told them this is what I can afford to
pay, it will come every month and if that isn't go enough what are you going
to do? Reposes my son!
Tracy - the other half of Cantello Studios
www.cantellostudios.com
Cantello@2xtreme.net
OWLPOTTER@AOL.COM on thu 4 apr 02
As a self-employed person, I found affordable medical insurance at
http://www.eHealthInsurance.com - from a small article in Time magazine.
-Carolynn Palmer, Somerset Center, Michigan
David Hendley on thu 4 apr 02
Medical Savings Accounts are the only reasonable solution
to available and reasonably priced health care.
Unfortunately, I don't think it will ever happen, because most
people get insurance where they work and don't realize how much
it really costs them or how much it restricts them.
If you don't have medical insurance from your work, you can
establish a government sanctioned (USA) MSA.
First, you buy "Major Medical" insurance.
It pays nothing until you have expenses exceeding several
thousand dollars, but it is inexpensive.
The difference in cost between ordinary health insurance
and Major Medical can be then saved, tax-free, and compounded
tax-free in a Medical Savings Account.
You use this savings account to pay for all your medical expenses
until you meet the deductible for the major medical.
Since the deductible is so high, it is not reached most years.
The great thing is, you are now in control of your health
care costs. You have a big incentive to stay well.
We have also found that medical cost are VERY negotiable
if you are really paying, such as 'here's a check', rather then
just flashing your insurance card.
When doctors realize that you are paying your hard-earned
cash, they will often check a different box on their form
which can mean a significant difference in cost.
If a procedure is arranged in advance and will be paid for
in cash, hospitals will reduce their price by hundreds
of dollars.
Being healthy and educated 'take care of yourself' people,
our medical costs are minimal. We now have over $10,000
saved in a MSA, earning interest tax-free. If it is never spent
on health care, at retirement (Medicare) age it can be considered
as an IRA and provide retirement income.
Any time a service is provide and someone else is paying for it,
no one cares how much it costs, so no one shops around
for medical services. Heck, 90% of the time when we ask a
doctor or hospital how much a procedure will cost, they don't
even know. They can maybe have an answer the next day.
No wonder costs are out of control.
There would be no charge of $5 for an aspirin if ordinary people
had to hand over a five dollar bill upon leaving the hospital.
If people had to pay for every doctor visit and every medical
procedure, the health of the population would also improve
because preventive health measures and self-reliance would
become more widespread.
There is a silly ending to my personal MSA story:
Last year, my wife Karen went back to work, so for the first time
in years we had the option of having medical insurance through
a job.
As much as I hate the system, philosophically and practically,
the economics dictated that we take the insurance, since it is
subsidized so heavily by the employer.
If she quits her job, I'll rejoin the MSA. Meanwhile, the $10,000
I saved through this system is growing larger, month by month.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com
Cindi Anderson on thu 4 apr 02
But you missed a very important issue, and that is that when you are on your
own you are dealing with "list price" where the plans have negotiated much
better prices. Yes, there are cases where you can get a discount for paying
cash. I have found this true for a few doctors and labs tests. BUT there
are other cases where you get completely hosed. $150 regular price, $50
insurance negotiated price is very common. Or even worse than that.
Several years ago my husband had knee surgery. Hospital bill was $17000.
The insurance settled with the hospital for under $3000! Do you think you
could negotiate that yourself? So just be careful when you self insure.
Cindi
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hendley"
> We have also found that medical cost are VERY negotiable
> if you are really paying, such as 'here's a check', rather then
> just flashing your insurance card.
> When doctors realize that you are paying your hard-earned
> cash, they will often check a different box on their form
> which can mean a significant difference in cost.
> If a procedure is arranged in advance and will be paid for
> in cash, hospitals will reduce their price by hundreds
> of dollars.
>
> Any time a service is provide and someone else is paying for it,
> no one cares how much it costs, so no one shops around
> for medical services. Heck, 90% of the time when we ask a
> doctor or hospital how much a procedure will cost, they don't
> even know. They can maybe have an answer the next day.
> No wonder costs are out of control.
> There would be no charge of $5 for an aspirin if ordinary people
> had to hand over a five dollar bill upon leaving the hospital.
> If people had to pay for every doctor visit and every medical
> procedure, the health of the population would also improve
> because preventive health measures and self-reliance would
> become more widespread.
Olivia T Cavy on thu 4 apr 02
I heartily second everything David wrote here, and I'd offer another
option to paying high insurance premium costs. You can purchase what I'd
call "catastrophe insurance." This is insurance with a very high
deductible of one to two thousand dollars after which all costs are
covered. It protects you against those big medical bills but doesn't
cover routine expenses.
The premiums are affordable. You pay the first several thousand dollars
of medical expenses in lieu of paying high premiums having those costs
mostly covered. In years when your medical costs are low, you're the
financial winner. In years when you have emergency or major medical
problems, you probably come out financially even or ahead.
For people looking to purchase traditional medical coverage or HMO
coverage, many business owners belong to a variety of organizations that
put together a group to purchase the medical plans. I'm thinking of
Chambers of Commerce, Small Business organizations and the like. You pay
a few hundred dollars a year to belong and then you pay the "group" rate
for medical insurance, often $300-400 for one person and $400-$600 for a
family. Not cheap.
Bonnie
Bonnie D. Hellman, Pittsburgh, PA
PA work email: oliviatcavy@juno.com
PA home email: mou10man@sgi.net (that's the number 10 in the middle of
the letters)
On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:41:16 -0600 David Hendley
writes:
> Medical Savings Accounts are the only reasonable solution
> to available and reasonably priced health care.
> Unfortunately, I don't think it will ever happen, because most
> people get insurance where they work and don't realize how much
> it really costs them or how much it restricts them.
>
> If you don't have medical insurance from your work, you can
> establish a government sanctioned (USA) MSA.
> First, you buy "Major Medical" insurance.
> It pays nothing until you have expenses exceeding several
> thousand dollars, but it is inexpensive.
> The difference in cost between ordinary health insurance
> and Major Medical can be then saved, tax-free, and compounded
> tax-free in a Medical Savings Account.
> You use this savings account to pay for all your medical expenses
> until you meet the deductible for the major medical.
> Since the deductible is so high, it is not reached most years.
>
> The great thing is, you are now in control of your health
> care costs. You have a big incentive to stay well.
> We have also found that medical cost are VERY negotiable
> if you are really paying, such as 'here's a check', rather then
> just flashing your insurance card.
> When doctors realize that you are paying your hard-earned
> cash, they will often check a different box on their form
> which can mean a significant difference in cost.
> If a procedure is arranged in advance and will be paid for
> in cash, hospitals will reduce their price by hundreds
> of dollars.
>
> Being healthy and educated 'take care of yourself' people,
> our medical costs are minimal. We now have over $10,000
> saved in a MSA, earning interest tax-free. If it is never spent
> on health care, at retirement (Medicare) age it can be considered
> as an IRA and provide retirement income.
>
> Any time a service is provide and someone else is paying for it,
> no one cares how much it costs, so no one shops around
> for medical services. Heck, 90% of the time when we ask a
> doctor or hospital how much a procedure will cost, they don't
> even know. They can maybe have an answer the next day.
> No wonder costs are out of control.
> There would be no charge of $5 for an aspirin if ordinary people
> had to hand over a five dollar bill upon leaving the hospital.
> If people had to pay for every doctor visit and every medical
> procedure, the health of the population would also improve
> because preventive health measures and self-reliance would
> become more widespread.
>
> There is a silly ending to my personal MSA story:
> Last year, my wife Karen went back to work, so for the first time
> in years we had the option of having medical insurance through
> a job.
> As much as I hate the system, philosophically and practically,
> the economics dictated that we take the insurance, since it is
> subsidized so heavily by the employer.
> If she quits her job, I'll rejoin the MSA. Meanwhile, the $10,000
> I saved through this system is growing larger, month by month.
>
> David Hendley
> Maydelle, Texas
> hendley@tyler.net
> http://www.farmpots.com
>
>
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KLeSueur@AOL.COM on fri 5 apr 02
I've been a hospice volunteer too long to believe the myth that taking care of yourself will keep you healthy. All too often I take care of patients who tell me they just don't understand why this is happening to them. They're the ones who exercised every day. They grew much of their own food chemically free. They bought meat at the organic food store to avoid steroids and antibiotics. Often they are young.Yet, here they are suffering from ALS (Lou Gerhig's disease) or some other disease that we have no explanation for, no way to say " "it's your own fault. You're life style."
That $10,000 David has saved in a medical savings account easily would have disappeared in the first months trying to get their illness diagnoised. He's at least lucky enough to make an income that allows him to set aside money. For many poor people there is no money to set aside unless, of course, one is willing to forgo housing and food.
I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford health insurance. I live in a community with many professional self-employed which made it possible for the chamber of commerce to secure a policy for all of us that is a "reasonable" rate. I'm fortunate to have savings that could assist in covering expenses that my insurance won't.
However, I have decided that should I be diagnosed with a potentially terminal illness I will proceed directly to hospice rather than drain all of the assets of my household leaving my partner in debt, possibly even in danger of losing our home.
Medical care in the US is in crisis (in the world for that matter). And, while you may be able to negotiate with your doctor on fees, when you try that with the hospital it's a different story. And of course, keep in mind that your doctor has to get his money from somewhere. So, if you're negotiating his fee down, he's charging more somewhere else.
Kathi LeSueur
David Hendley on fri 5 apr 02
Tracy, around here the midwives comes to you.
The hospital is only used in case of an emergency.
My daughter was actually born in my glazing area
(we lived in the old farmhouse before it became the pottery
shop). It is a pleasure to, from time to time, be reminded
about that day while glazing a load of pots.
The cost was $600 (1984 prices), including pre-natal
check-ups. The midwife would have accepted pots, or
chickens, carpentry work, or just about anything else,
but she was building a house and needed real cash more
than I.
My daughter's braces cost a large dinnerware set, plus
a little cash, and we have a running tab of drugs versus
pottery at the pharmacy.
Never accept the barf pan and pitcher at the hospital.
Bring your own handmade pots!
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cantello Studios"
To:
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: Medical Insurance
> David Hendley wrote:
> 'The great thing is, you are now in control of your health
> care costs. "
>
> We took control of our health care cost with our first child. Paid the
> midwives with a dinnerware set, which took care of the $1000.00
deductible.
> Labored at home until midnight than went to the hospital. Did not want to
> get there before 12:00pm or would be charged for that day also. Didn't
> accept the "admit kit" you know the barf pan, water pitcher etc. cost
> $80.00. Did need the pan that morning, oh well. The blanket on the bed
> worked okay. : ) And I saved $80.00. Made monthly payments of $25.00 to
> the hospital until Colin was 4. I told them this is what I can afford to
> pay, it will come every month and if that isn't go enough what are you
going
> to do? Reposes my son!
>
> Tracy - the other half of Cantello Studios
> www.cantellostudios.com
> Cantello@2xtreme.net
>
Arnold Howard on fri 5 apr 02
The only crisis that I see in health care is that we are living
longer. Illnesses that were once terminal are now treated
successfully. But the cost of that treatment is expensive.
Ultimately, the only health crisis is death itself.
Arnold Howard
Paragon
--- KLeSueur@AOL.COM wrote:
> Medical care in the US is in crisis (in the world for that
> matter). And, while you may be able to negotiate with your doctor
> on fees, when you try that with the hospital it's a different
> story. And of course, keep in mind that your doctor has to get
> his money from somewhere. So, if you're negotiating his fee down,
> he's charging more somewhere else.
>
> Kathi LeSueur
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