Jeanette Harris on fri 3 mar 00
I just got an application for a show (outdoor type) that requires that
"I, the exhibitor, agree to provide a Certificate of General Liability
Insurance in the amount of $100,000 minimum naming the (festival
association) as Certificate Holder for the dates of (dates of the show)
either with my application or no later than 1 month before the show. (If
you have any questions about this requirement, please call your insurance
carrier.)"
I did call my carrier who is a large and well-known company and they had
never heard of this.
There is a further hold harmless for claims for any damage to or loss of
artwork and/or crafts incurred while exhibiting at the festival and claims
for product liability and claims for injury.
Have any of you had this asked of you?
On the surface, it looks like the festival association is having the
exhibitors underwrite their liability insurance. When I called the contact
number, I really didn't get a very satisfactory answer. But they did say
that they had to carry a lot of insurance and that 'this was just to
provide protection in case my canopy fell down on somebody". And
"Insurance companies want to spread the cost of laibility out as much as
they can."
All this plus an audible sigh of frustration heard after I questioned this
provision tells me I don't want to 'buy' into this. But I would like to
know if this is something that is either common or becoming a trend.
Thanks
Jeanette Harris
Tom Wirt on sat 4 mar 00
Jeanette...
First of all, you should be carrying all of this in your standard business
policy. The $100,000 is light. We've had several shows want a million in
coverage. This is going to be a growing trend.
If you've got standard liability, it is just a matter of the insurance
company sending the festival promoter a standard form naming them as
additional insured...no extra cost to you. Call your agent.
You are right to suspect it is an attempt to spread the liability. I
haven't heard of any large claims from injuries at shows other than
increasing vandalism where artists have tried to sue the organizers for lax
security.
Unfortunately the answer is, if the show requires it, and you want to do the
show, you play the game. Remember that it may not be the organizer, but
their insurance company that is requiring this of them. And yes, you can
expect more of it. As I noted above, it should not cost any more to you if
you carry standard business insurance. Operative word here is business
insurance. If you don't do that, it's a different problem.
Tom Wirt
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeanette Harris
Subject: Certificate of General Liability Insurance
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> "I, the exhibitor, agree to provide a Certificate of General Liability
> Insurance in the amount of $100,000 minimum naming the (festival
> association) as Certificate Holder for the dates of (dates of the show)
> either with my application or no later than 1 month before the show. (If
> you have any questions about this requirement, please call your insurance
> carrier.)"
>
> I did call my carrier who is a large and well-known company and they had
> never heard of this.
>
>
> There is a further hold harmless for claims for any damage to or loss of
> artwork and/or crafts incurred while exhibiting at the festival and claims
> for product liability and claims for injury.
>
> Have any of you had this asked of you?
>
> On the surface, it looks like the festival association is having the
> exhibitors underwrite their liability insurance. When I called the
contact
> number, I really didn't get a very satisfactory answer. But they did say
> that they had to carry a lot of insurance and that 'this was just to
> provide protection in case my canopy fell down on somebody". And
> "Insurance companies want to spread the cost of laibility out as much as
> they can."
>
Kathi LeSueur on sat 4 mar 00
Do you have business insurance or just a studio rider on your home. An
independent agency writing lots of commercial insurance would probably be
able to insure you for this loss. CNA is a large company that writes lots of
business insurance and is available through lots of independents.
You really should have some kind of liability insurance at shows. If your
canopy did break loose and injure someone you would be liable. Without
insurance you could loose everything you have.
The only line I don't like from the show is too hold them harmless for your
own loss. If you are injured or loose work because of their negligence (such
as failure to properly secure their displays or tent) you should have the
right to hold them liable for your loss.
I wouldn't do the show if I was required to sign such a statement.
Kathi LeSueur
Ann Arbor, Mi
Cindy Strnad on sat 4 mar 00
Jeanette,
I'm not at all surprised you got an audible sigh of frustration when you
questioned the festival's requirement that you provide liability insurance.
I'm certain yours was not by any means the first call. I'm also certain this
festival isn't going to attract a lot of exhibitors. Liability insurance is
expensive for an event like this. That's one of the things your exhibit fee
should be paying for.
Cindy Strnad
earthenv@gwtc.net
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
Herb Moses on sat 4 mar 00
Sure. It was no sweat. I called up my insurance agent and they issued a
rider for the festival. No cost. It might matter that we have a retail
store and carry general liability insurance.
herb
http://www.usapottery.com
Palm Springs Pottery
198 S. Indian Canyon Drive
Palm Springs, CA 92262
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeanette Harris
To:
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 3:25 PM
Subject: Certificate of General Liability Insurance
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I just got an application for a show (outdoor type) that requires that
>
> "I, the exhibitor, agree to provide a Certificate of General Liability
> Insurance in the amount of $100,000 minimum naming the (festival
> association) as Certificate Holder for the dates of (dates of the show)
> either with my application or no later than 1 month before the show. (If
> you have any questions about this requirement, please call your insurance
> carrier.)"
>
> I did call my carrier who is a large and well-known company and they had
> never heard of this.
>
>
> There is a further hold harmless for claims for any damage to or loss of
> artwork and/or crafts incurred while exhibiting at the festival and claims
> for product liability and claims for injury.
>
> Have any of you had this asked of you?
>
> On the surface, it looks like the festival association is having the
> exhibitors underwrite their liability insurance. When I called the
contact
> number, I really didn't get a very satisfactory answer. But they did say
> that they had to carry a lot of insurance and that 'this was just to
> provide protection in case my canopy fell down on somebody". And
> "Insurance companies want to spread the cost of laibility out as much as
> they can."
>
> All this plus an audible sigh of frustration heard after I questioned this
> provision tells me I don't want to 'buy' into this. But I would like to
> know if this is something that is either common or becoming a trend.
>
> Thanks
> Jeanette Harris
>
NakedClay@aol.com on sun 5 mar 00
Hi Jeanette!
This does seem odd, that each exhibitor must carry liability insurance. Is
this for an indoor or an outdoor show? Does the owner of the property require
such insurance, or is it the sponsor of the show? Generally, the owner of the
property might require proof of insurance by the sponsor, but not the
participants (ie, vendors) of the show.
There are insurance companies that specialise in this kind of coverage.
Manson-Bell, in Los Angeles, comes to mind. This is a company which sells
liability insurance for all sorts of events which involve public participants
(ie, the customers of a show). But this is usually bought by the renter of
property, not a sub-lessee!
It seems that the standard public liability policy one might buy for a studio
or store, might be sufficient for this show. Many of the vendors (those with
stores attached to a studio) would already have this kind of coverage. Some
states require this, while others don't.
It sounds to me that the sponsor of the show is confused, and either doesn't
want to cough up the costs for what it's ultimately responsible for, is new
to the process, or expects that the vendors all have stores!
Best wishes to you!
Milton NakedClay@AOL.COM
KYancey on sun 5 mar 00
As one who organizes a small art/craft show for the city of St. Petersburg, FL
It has always been the festival organizer that is responsible for one million
dollars liability insurance with the city as co-insured. Most non-profit
organizations should have liability insurance and it only costs about $125 to
add an additional insured. My guess, however, is that this festival is staged
on private land, and the land owner is putting all the pressure on the festival
organizer to comply to their insurers requirements. There could be no way
around this except to look for another site. If, however, your show is on
government land, the festival organizer might be pressured by the risk
management dept., where the problem could be solved by a visit to the Mayor or
Council's office. With the City of St. Pete, it is the the event organization
that must meet all the insurance and permitting requirements, some or all of
which can be underwritten by the city if Council agrees to provide
co-sponsorship. This is a lot easier than it sounds since the city provides a
complete walk-through with the procedure, complete with work shops and easy- to
-meet time frame.
About hold harmless agreements, yes it would be your loss if something should
happen to your artwork, that is not the direct fault of the event organizer.
This would include weather conditions which is responsible for 90% of damages.
It is expected that the artist be aware that he/she is in a public, outdoor
situation where conditions are unpredictable and not the fault of the
organizer. Yes, you should expect to sign a hold harmless agreement.
Regarding tent liability, I wonder how many tents wound or kill people during
the year. Must be thousands according to the insurance company eh? NOT SO. It
is FIRE. Imagine walking into a large tent cooking weenies or something and the
canvas catches fire. Not good! Your tent should have a tag on it somewhere
regarding flame retardency. That's all you need for a permit. Are you going to
cook inside your tent? That's another story. Did you make the tent yourself?
There are inexpensive chemicals you can purchase to spray on canvas that can
make them flame retardent. Will the fire dept. permit that tent? They might if
you have some sort of proof you actually did that. There are companies that
will treat your home-made tent and staple their tag to your tent. That's
expensive. It's best to buy a name-brand Tent. I pity historic events. They
have it the worst when it comes to permits.
Anyway, I've rambled enough. There are so many variables to consider when
someone tries to NOT get sued. There are some people that go to great lengths
to get the easy money. (I've got some great "war" stories). But it sound to me
the particular event you mention has gone a little too far.
Conclusion, It's their show, however, and they make the rules. If you want to
change them, maybe you and others can join the planning committee.
Good luck Ken
Jeanette Harris wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I just got an application for a show (outdoor type) that requires that
>
> "I, the exhibitor, agree to provide a Certificate of General Liability
> Insurance in the amount of $100,000 minimum naming the (festival
> association) as Certificate Holder for the dates of (dates of the show)
> either with my application or no later than 1 month before the show. (If
> you have any questions about this requirement, please call your insurance
> carrier.)"
>
> I did call my carrier who is a large and well-known company and they had
> never heard of this.
>
> There is a further hold harmless for claims for any damage to or loss of
> artwork and/or crafts incurred while exhibiting at the festival and claims
> for product liability and claims for injury.
>
> Have any of you had this asked of you?
>
> On the surface, it looks like the festival association is having the
> exhibitors underwrite their liability insurance. When I called the contact
> number, I really didn't get a very satisfactory answer. But they did say
> that they had to carry a lot of insurance and that 'this was just to
> provide protection in case my canopy fell down on somebody". And
> "Insurance companies want to spread the cost of laibility out as much as
> they can."
>
> All this plus an audible sigh of frustration heard after I questioned this
> provision tells me I don't want to 'buy' into this. But I would like to
> know if this is something that is either common or becoming a trend.
>
> Thanks
> Jeanette Harris
Jimmy Chandler on sun 5 mar 00
I have a general contractor's license in Md., where the state requires a
million dollar liability policy before issuing a license. This, to me,
is part of the cost of doing business. I've never found it was a
problem to have our agent issue a certificate for various events (in my
case, rooms in decorator's showhouses); there has never been an
additional cost, it's merely proof that if someone does fall in your
space, or your space falls on them, that the sponsor of the event won't
bear the burden financially.
This should be no problem if you currently have a gen. liability policy.
Laura Chandler
Kensington MD
Carolynn Palmer on sun 5 mar 00
I've never run into this at an outdoor show, but, several times we have
leased kioske space inside malls and have been required to carry a $1,000.000
policy, naming the mall, in order to meet their contract requirements. There
are insurance companies who advertise in "Sunshine Artist" magazine that
offer this type of insurance for very short periods of time.
I hope this was an isolated case. As a frequent retail show exhibitor I would
HATE to see this become a trend!
Carolynn Palmer, Somerset Center, Michigan
Christopher J. Anton on mon 6 mar 00
Something mentioned by the instructor in a personal financial planning
course. Insurance companies tend to pay off at the under one million level,
and send in the lawyers for anything higher. What this means is that if you
are sued for one million, but have only one hundred thousand in coverage,
the company will pay off and leave you to the wolves. If _they_ may have
to pay "significant bucks," then they are more likely to help you fight the
suit. As a result, he recommended that if you can afford it, always carry a
general liability policy of at least $1,000,000.00.
- Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Wirt"
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: Certificate of General Liability Insurance
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Jeanette...
> First of all, you should be carrying all of this in your standard business
> policy. The $100,000 is light. We've had several shows want a million in
> coverage. This is going to be a growing trend.
>
> If you've got standard liability, it is just a matter of the insurance
> company sending the festival promoter a standard form naming them as
> additional insured...no extra cost to you. Call your agent.
>
> You are right to suspect it is an attempt to spread the liability. I
> haven't heard of any large claims from injuries at shows other than
> increasing vandalism where artists have tried to sue the organizers for
lax
> security.
>
> Unfortunately the answer is, if the show requires it, and you want to do
the
> show, you play the game. Remember that it may not be the organizer, but
> their insurance company that is requiring this of them. And yes, you can
> expect more of it. As I noted above, it should not cost any more to you
if
> you carry standard business insurance. Operative word here is business
> insurance. If you don't do that, it's a different problem.
>
> Tom Wirt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeanette Harris
> Subject: Certificate of General Liability Insurance
>
>
> > ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > "I, the exhibitor, agree to provide a Certificate of General Liability
> > Insurance in the amount of $100,000 minimum naming the (festival
> > association) as Certificate Holder for the dates of (dates of the show)
> > either with my application or no later than 1 month before the show.
(If
> > you have any questions about this requirement, please call your
insurance
> > carrier.)"
> >
> > I did call my carrier who is a large and well-known company and they had
> > never heard of this.
> >
> >
> > There is a further hold harmless for claims for any damage to or loss of
> > artwork and/or crafts incurred while exhibiting at the festival and
claims
> > for product liability and claims for injury.
> >
> > Have any of you had this asked of you?
> >
> > On the surface, it looks like the festival association is having the
> > exhibitors underwrite their liability insurance. When I called the
> contact
> > number, I really didn't get a very satisfactory answer. But they did
say
> > that they had to carry a lot of insurance and that 'this was just to
> > provide protection in case my canopy fell down on somebody". And
> > "Insurance companies want to spread the cost of laibility out as much as
> > they can."
> >
>
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Bruce Girrell on mon 6 mar 00
Jeanette Harris wrote:
>I just got an application for a show (outdoor type) that requires...
>a Certificate of General Liability Insurance
Jeanette,
I've never heard of it but I'm not surprised by it. We, as a society, have
created the problem ourselves. The only way to stop it is to ensure that
exhibitions that make such a requirement have no exhibitors. As unconnected
and sometimes money hungry as artists are, this may be a difficult approach
to take.
What show is it? Maybe we can write some letters and let them know our
concerns.
Bruce Girrell
in _warm_ (for this time of year) Northern Michigan, doubting that the
moderators would let my post make it to the list if I said what I'd like to
about insurance companies and lawyers
Jeanette Harris on tue 7 mar 00
>I've never heard of it but I'm not surprised by it. We, as a society, have
>created the problem ourselves. The only way to stop it is to ensure that
>exhibitions that make such a requirement have no exhibitors. As unconnected
>and sometimes money hungry as artists are, this may be a difficult approach
>to take.
>
>What show is it? Maybe we can write some letters and let them know our
>concerns.
>
>Bruce Girrell
Thanks to all of you for your responses regarding this--
It seems the plot thins----My curiosity was tweeked and I chased this
question a bit more. I have just gotten off the phone with an insurance
agent. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
Seems as though there was a valid reason for the frustrated sigh I heard
when I asked the show promoter about the requirement for a Certificate of
General Liability. Seems that last year the show had an incident and was
sued.
Now I understand why they are so gun-shy. The result was that the
promoting group, which is a non-profit organization, now has their own
insurance and want to make sure that all the exhibitors are covered too.
As a member of a group that has organized and promoted our own shows, this
made my ears perk up. I was interested to know more not only as someone
who was on the managing end, but also as an exhibitor in other shows.
It was explained to me in this way: Say you set up your canopy in an
outside show and a gust of wind blows your tent into another artist's tent
and destroys their artwork. Without insurance, you can be sued for that
person's inventory. If a shelf falls on a patron or if they slip and fall
in your booth, you are liable, not the pormoter.
Also, what if the promoter's information canopy does the same thing or
there is an incident in the parking lot, building, whatever, the promoting
organization is then liable for damages.
So, it's apples and oranges--promoter's insurance covers their liability;
individual artists' insurance is their coverage. The Certificate of
General Liability is a notification to the organizers that you do, indeed
have an active coverage policy in effect.
I was referred to an agent who routinely writes policies for shows and
individual artists. The information they require for shows is: The
location of the show, the number of participants, average attendance,
estimated gross sales, number of days the show will be up. They will write
a policy on the basis of risk. For instance, the premium for an outdoor
show will be more than in indoor one, but even that is not a large amount.
For $100,000 coverage for an indoor show show, the premium for 1 year's
policy is $225. For a million dollars' coverage, it's $295.
My conclusion after chasing this is: Don't present a show without checking
on insurance for the group and just factor in the premium into the entry
fee. Spread out over several artists, it doesn't amount to that much. If
you are a group like we are, we don't have a large treasury and promote out
shows at cost, keeping our expenses as low as we can.
If you are an individual artist and plan to do several shows a year, it
might be worth your while to have a conversation with an insurance agent
about your liability. Your regular household insurance won't cover it, but
if you do have business insurance, it might be covered. Check it out. I'm
planning to do several outdoor shows this year and think I'll get the
coverage.
See ya at NCECA,
Jeanette Harris
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