candace vosburg on tue 11 apr 00
Hello,
and thank you fro taking the time to read this message. I need to know if it
is ok to take pictures in galleries, or scan pictures out of magazines, in
the intent of making slides to show my classes good exampes of other artists
works. I have a wonderful library close at hand but i did not know id this
is leagal, or if it is bad taste to do so. I would obviosly only be using
them to show classes, crediting the artist of course. Can you please give
more opinion on my delemma.
thanks
candace
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Diane Mead on tue 11 apr 00
To Candace
Technically it is illegal to copy
anything you have not created.
However, I think it would be rare for anyone
to prosecute a lowly teacher for such.
You can do your research and find copyright
law is pretty specific and stiff.
Diane Mead
Cindy Strnad on wed 12 apr 00
Candace,
It's my understanding that most galleries won't allow you to take pictures,
but if you ask nice and explain what you're doing and why, you might have
some luck. Taking pictures while on someone else's property requires their
permission, but you can stand across the street and photograph away--not
much help to you, I'm afraid.
As for scanning pictures from magazines, it is a violation of copyright law.
It's doubtful you'd ever get caught, and if you did, they'd most likely just
ask you to stop, but it is against the law. Of course, schools do this sort
of thing all the time. You can ask the publisher for permission if you like,
but the photos are probably sold for one-time publication only and remain
the property of the photographer or image bank. That gets real complicated
when all you wanted was a slide to show your students, I'm afraid.
Cindy Strnad
earthenv@gwtc.net
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
Earl Brunner on wed 12 apr 00
The gallery issue is up to the gallery. In the Denver Art
Museum for
example one of the gallery workers told us that if the works
belonged
to the gallery they allowed photographing. If they were on
loan or
did not belong to the gallery than we did not have
permission to take pictures, essentially because the gallery
couldn't give it. Teachers
have a little more freedom when it comes to copyrighted
material
(magazines, books, etc.) however there are limitations and
restrictions.
I might show a class a segment of Westside Story in video
format if
the segment had a specific educational purpose. I could not
show the
whole movie with out being responsible for the costs of a
public
showing. Likewise I can tape off of the T.V. and use the
tae or part
of the tape of a program in a lesson. I may not keep it
indefinitely
and use it over and over again. Even video tape like Robin
Hopper's
Making Marks series is sold at two prices. One for
individual use
(lower price) and one for institutional or educational use
(higher
price). The higher price is intended to compensate the
copyright
holder for the expected sxtended use of the product. This
is a very complicated area. To be in compliance, you really
need to get some
specific information. Check out the copyright policies of
your local
public school system. What ever guidlines they give theirr
teahcers
should work for you. A possible difference is if you are
charging
the students for the experience. You might be on a little
safer
ground if as an individual you had some friends over and
showed them
out of your generosity your collection of pottery images.
You could
check out books and go through the books together no
problem.
candace vosburg wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hello,
> and thank you fro taking the time to read this message. I need to know if it
> is ok to take pictures in galleries, or scan pictures out of magazines, in
> the intent of making slides to show my classes good exampes of other artists
> works. I have a wonderful library close at hand but i did not know id this
> is leagal, or if it is bad taste to do so. I would obviosly only be using
> them to show classes, crediting the artist of course. Can you please give
> more opinion on my delemma.
> thanks
> candace
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
vince pitelka on wed 12 apr 00
> Technically it is illegal to copy
> anything you have not created.
Diane -
We have discussed this before on Clayart, but I had to speak up. The above
is true only of things which are copyrighted, or where a living artist or
the designated heirs of a deceased artist are able to and choose to prove
the original provenance of the artist's work in order to discredit or
prosecute an immitator. Things are very different in written copyrighted
work, but in visual work the lines are quite fuzzy. If a person directly
copies copyrighted work and markets it, they are really asking for trouble
and deserve stiff punishment. And of course, ANYONE who copies the work of
a living artist with capital gain in mind is accumulating a huge load of bad
karma which will inevitably come back on them. But in the fine arts world
artists copy work all the time and integrate it into other work. It is part
of what artists do.
Students copy things as a learning experience all the time, and as you point
out, it is extremely unlikely that anyone would prosecute them as long as it
was done only as a learning experience. Remember the words of Jazz great
Clark Terry: "Immitate, assimilate, innovate." So immitation is OK as a
learning experience, but only as a means to find original expression.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Janet Kaiser on wed 12 apr 00
It depends which country you are in and how the copyright laws are applied.
A friend of mine who lectures at Bangor University, GB-Wales, told me some
pretty frightening stuff following a "Copyright Class" she had to attend.
This followed a university being sued for thousands of pounds by a
publishing house. They seemingly have an anonymous "inspector" visiting all
the educational institutions around the country, posing as a student in
lectures and checking that copyright is not being breached!!!!
Example:
Photo-copies from books, magazines, etc. can be given to students without
contravening copyright, but only if you hand them to each person PERSONALLY.
No good leaving them for students to pick up. Then you have to collect them
all in at the end of the session!! That is technically because it is legal
to share information with individual people, but leaving in a pile or a
pigeon hole is tantamount to "publishing".
Also all copies have to then be destroyed. You cannot keep them for the next
term or class! Forget the reason for that piece of monumental absurdity.
There is also a limit to the number of sequential pages you can photocopy
without it being considered an outright breach of copyright. Example: A
whole chapter in a book is not allowed, but part of one to illustrate a
particular point is OK
Most galleries object to photography. The national/big galleries produce
their own slides, which they obviously want to sell. At some you can buy a
photography permit, but you usually have to work without a flash. If you
want to take photographs of contemporary work, you must ask the gallery...
If they give permission, you can use the image.
I usually give permission if politely asked first and a good reason is
given, but if people start clicking away without asking, I shout at them...
Well, actually I politely point out photography is not allowed in the
gallery. Many galleries make you leave your camera at the entrance. That may
appear petty, but I do not know which artists I work with are keen on having
their work photographed or not. I also do not know why a certain person is
taking them... To copy? to publish? to use for their own gain? to rip off an
original idea = steal intellectual property?
When I was a student, we were encouraged to draw and sketch what we liked
and thought interesting... I still do. What was good enough for us, is good
enough for students today IMHO! I do not feel I am cramping their creativity
or stopping them sourcing ideas by refusing photography.
I do not think it would be in breach of copyright to photocopy and then use
on an overhead projector. It could possibly be wrong to have a slide made of
same...
What a mine field! Now we all have to have law degrees too....
Janet Kaiser - who forgot to say the first sighting of porpoise was April
4th this year.
The Chapel of Art, Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales
Home of The International Potters Path
TEL: (01766) 523570
WEB: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
EMAIL: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> To Candace
>
> Technically it is illegal to copy
> anything you have not created.
>
> However, I think it would be rare for anyone
> to prosecute a lowly teacher for such.
> You can do your research and find copyright
> law is pretty specific and stiff.
>
> Diane Mead
>
WHew536674@cs.com on wed 12 apr 00
Candace,
The only people who I know about that would be upset about this are the
companies that make slides of art work, and you aren't buying from them.
Every school I have taught at had a slide collection, that was made up in
large part, from the historian and their camera taking pictures out of books.
Where I teach at now, we bought a whole set up to take slides from out of
books. I wouldn't worry about it.
Joyce A.
Stephani Stephenson on wed 12 apr 00
Candace
I believe that an instructor may photograph a limited number of
photos/slides from a book, for educational use only. When I taught at a
community college, the director of the A/V facility informed me of the
guidelines. I used the college copystand, etc. to shoot the photos. I
cannot remember the exact number. Seems like it was no more 6 photos
from the same source. After that you are supposed to get permission from
the publisher. It seemed reasonable. Check with an A/V tech at your
local college. They may know, also people at local copy shops.
Stephani Stephenson
Alchemie Studio
Leucadia CA
mudmistress@earthlink.net
Terrance Lazaroff on thu 13 apr 00
Candace:
Whenever you use the image of an artist. Be it a sculpture, a painter, a
potter or a photographer, you are in law using his intellectual property and
you should be paying for that privilege. However, we know that it impossible
for the artists of the world to monitor this sort of use, so it goes on
regularly.
If you do use the images you should at least give the credits due to the
artist as well as the photographer (if known). If you know the artist you
can ask permission to use the images in a class room setting and they will
most probably give you the permission.
We in canada have an organisation called: HREF="http://www.cancopy.com/welcome.shtml">CANCOPY: Welcome! . This
organisation collects money from libraries and schools who allow the use of
photocopiers. These funds are then distributed to the registered artists. I
am sure your area has a copyright association who does the same thing.
A good place to check on copyright is at: HREF="http://www.loc.gov/copyright/cords/">U.S. Copyright Office CORDS Page> They have the answer to many copyright questions.
Terrance Frank Lazaroff
St-Hubert, Quebec, Canada
Bruce Girrell on thu 13 apr 00
------------------
No one has mentioned the term =22fair use=22 yet, so I guess I'll have to
do it.
Use your favorite search engine and the terms =22fair use=22 AND copyright
(be sure to put quotes around =22fair use=22 exactly as I did it). That
should give you what you need to know.
Some of you may have noticed that occasionally I include something in
one of my posts that goes like
=3Cbegin fair use - Copyright =5Bsomeone's name=5D=3E
copied material
=3Cend fair use=3E
In that way I signify that I am recognizing the original person's work
and their copyright. I am also stating that I believe my quote to be
appropriate fair use.
Basically, you are permitted to copy portions of copyrighted works for
educational and research purposes. If you profit from it or you deny
the copyright holder profit, the use is not permitted. There are lots
of other stipulations including how large of a fraction of the work
that you copy and how complete the copied portion is.
One thing that I have never gotten clear on is whether or not a glaze
recipe from a copyrighted work is fair use.The recipe constitutes a
only a small fraction of the total work and is being posted for
educational and informational purposes, so it would seem that it could
be fair use. But the recipe is also a whole unto itself and, if by
posting a recipe, I cause another person to not buy a copy of a
magazine containing that recipe it would seem that it is =5Fnot=5F fair
use. So there are definitely some gray areas.
Bruce =22I'm sure that cleared everything up=22 Girrell
vince pitelka on thu 13 apr 00
I missed the first part of this dialogue, and my answer yesterday was a
little off the subject.
The copyright laws are pretty specific about this, but I do not know a
single teacher who obeys them. If we did, we could not teach art history in
small universities with miniscule budgets. When I was teaching art history
and art appreciation at NDSU in Fargo, I shot thousands of slides. Without
them, I could not have done my job. No one is checking on you here. If you
are using the imagery for educational purposes, then go for it and do not
worry about it.
You can purchase an inexpensive copy stand, or improvise something that will
do the same job. Ordinary reflector utility lights with tungsten bulbs work
great, and in my experience the color response will be extremely close with
100 watt soft-white bulbs with far less heat. Place one on either side of
the book or magazine being photographed, at a low enough angle that it does
not create reflections, but high enough that the glare does not bleed into
the camera lens.
And regarding shooting in galleries and museums, in my experience the
policies are very erratic. Generally, shooting with flash is not allowed in
the US, but in the British Museum and the V&A in London they do not care if
you use a flash, and in both museums you can photograph anything you want.
But in the Tate you cannot photograph anything. Go figure.
In the US, the general policy is that you cannot photograph work which is on
loan from someone else, such as in a special exhibition. Generally you can
photograph anything which is in the permanent collection at a museum.
Galleries will often let you photograph work if you are using the slides for
teaching. I have photographed ceramic work in many galleries, including
many times in the Garth Clark gallery in NYC. This is one of the main ways
I have built my collection of ceramics slides. I do not always get perfect
color response, depending on the lighting, but the results are far
preferable to not having slides at all, especially for someone teaching in
the backwater of the US, in Smithville Tennessee (hey, we love it here).
For shooting in galleries and museums, I have had best luck with Ektrachrome
tungsten 320 slide film. It gives excellent color response, and is fast
enough that you can shoot slides in relatively low-light conditions. If
there is any daylight or florescent, the color response will be off, but as
I said, that is not really a problem. After all, when you see the work in a
museum, it looks completely different dependent on the light source -
tungsten, halogen, florescent, or daylight.
Good luck and good slides -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Diane Mead on fri 14 apr 00
Vince:
I agree wholeheartedly with all you wrote. The media folks we deal with all
claim that any visual copying from books is illegal. Since I know that I
only use slides I make are for teaching, I ignore it. They keep stressing
the same laws. I know no artist would hold a teacher to that. It would be
ludicrous.
And if "they" could find a way to decipher all the influences we've
unconsciously absorbed over the years, none of us would be original! All
of your statements are accurate for me!
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> Technically it is illegal to copy
>> anything you have not created.
>
>Diane -
>We have discussed this before on Clayart, but I had to speak up. The above
>is true only of things which are copyrighted, or where a living artist or
>the designated heirs of a deceased artist are able to and choose to prove
>the original provenance of the artist's work in order to discredit or
>prosecute an immitator. Things are very different in written copyrighted
>work, but in visual work the lines are quite fuzzy. If a person directly
>copies copyrighted work and markets it, they are really asking for trouble
>and deserve stiff punishment. And of course, ANYONE who copies the work of
>a living artist with capital gain in mind is accumulating a huge load of bad
>karma which will inevitably come back on them. But in the fine arts world
>artists copy work all the time and integrate it into other work. It is part
>of what artists do.
>
>Students copy things as a learning experience all the time, and as you point
>out, it is extremely unlikely that anyone would prosecute them as long as it
>was done only as a learning experience. Remember the words of Jazz great
>Clark Terry: "Immitate, assimilate, innovate." So immitation is OK as a
>learning experience, but only as a means to find original expression.
>Best wishes -
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka
>Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
>615/597-5376
>Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
>615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
>Appalachian Center for Crafts
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Diane Mead
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