Donald G. Goldsobel on tue 3 oct 00
At 12:47 PM 10/03/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>one has to be very careful here.
>
>there is a fine line between building kilns and breaking
>the law.
>
>My last word on the subject.
I am not advocating breaking laws. What I do know, is that the home potter,
for gain or hobby alone, is not a categorey known to the building
inspectors and they are covering their behinds rather than granting a clean
final inspection. I called the fire marshall out to my old house to approve
a small gas kiln plan. He wanted me to re-build my garage, install a stack
that was 4 feet across and line it with steel -triple walled. Approximate
cost was 15,000 bucks. He had no idea of what he was doing, only wanted to
make sure, he was in the clear and the hell with the potter. The rule is to
keep the kiln at least 10 feet from any structure. and \ or the stack
should be high enough to clear the nearest roof by a couple of feet.Gas
doesn't produce huge flames ten feet long. Use a Basso shutoff safety valve
and keep it simple- and out of doors.
Donald
mel jacobson on tue 3 oct 00
one has to be very careful here.
there is a fine line between building kilns and breaking
the law.
many of the laws and systems in place in communities
have little to do with home based kilns. they are systems for industry
and commercial application.
when a potter tries to do all the hoops, they get caught in
`no mans land`....and the city just dumps them.
many of the inspectors are not knowledgeable in kiln construction
and firing practice.
it just happened in our area. the inspector would not allow
electronic ignition on a very well designed kiln...state of the
art....they had to take it off and put on pilot lights....not state
of the art....total cost about $1,000 additional to the kiln.
donald by the way, is an outstanding attorney...and a very
good clayarter, that i have met. he is not intending to break
the law. he is saying that sometimes it is better to go ahead
and build a small kiln with the neighbors knowledge. to
kick the bee hive of city government is almost a sure way
to get a great big headache. i like to think he is saying..
`you will never get permission, but, you may get forgiveness.`
it was my motto being an art teacher.
if we had some standards nationwide...and i believe there should
be. it would be much easier to approach an old plumber that is
now an inspector. he normally does not have a clue what you are up to..
all he knows is that you are dumb and cannot do it...and if you
happen to be a woman, well you do not have a chance. he will
assume you are a dummy.
the dock six women had to grit their teeth, strap down their
tongues when the inspector came around. he treated them like
children and they could have spun circles around him with their
combined knowledge of kilns. he made many demands that were
not founded, yet
they had to go `with him` or not get the kiln. in my opinion, there original
kiln was much safer than the inspector made them build.
when building kilns, it is important to know what you are doing.
seek advice, get plans, fire proof things, acquire sound information
and knowledge before you build...plan, plan. get more insurance,
and if you have a good city government, use their information.
actually i believe that the fire marshall his your best friend, but
can be a nightmare if he/she is un/informed about kilns.
when faced with city government and kilns....you will walk
a very fine tightrope. i cannot advise anyone what to do about
that. it depends on where you live. all locals are different.
safety, pollution effects, care and concern are critical. know what you
are doing. when you do not, well, it ruins it for all.
mel
hard to build a woodfired kiln in manhatten.
FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
Nick Zappa on tue 3 oct 00
Mel: I agree with some of your observations. We live on 37 acres out of
town, no covenants, all lots are 35 acre minimum. One neighbor who happened
to work at a high position in our county Gov't. tried to shut us down. We
did much investigation before we built and try as they did, they were not
able because we would win in court. They literally threatened us. It is a
fine line, a good idea to get answers before making huge mistakes. Nick
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 11:47 AM
Subject: kilns/law breakers
> one has to be very careful here.
>
> there is a fine line between building kilns and breaking
> the law.
>
> many of the laws and systems in place in communities
> have little to do with home based kilns. they are systems for industry
> and commercial application.
>
> when a potter tries to do all the hoops, they get caught in
> `no mans land`....and the city just dumps them.
>
> many of the inspectors are not knowledgeable in kiln construction
> and firing practice.
>
> it just happened in our area. the inspector would not allow
> electronic ignition on a very well designed kiln...state of the
> art....they had to take it off and put on pilot lights....not state
> of the art....total cost about $1,000 additional to the kiln.
>
> donald by the way, is an outstanding attorney...and a very
> good clayarter, that i have met. he is not intending to break
> the law. he is saying that sometimes it is better to go ahead
> and build a small kiln with the neighbors knowledge. to
> kick the bee hive of city government is almost a sure way
> to get a great big headache. i like to think he is saying..
> `you will never get permission, but, you may get forgiveness.`
> it was my motto being an art teacher.
>
> if we had some standards nationwide...and i believe there should
> be. it would be much easier to approach an old plumber that is
> now an inspector. he normally does not have a clue what you are up to..
> all he knows is that you are dumb and cannot do it...and if you
> happen to be a woman, well you do not have a chance. he will
> assume you are a dummy.
>
> the dock six women had to grit their teeth, strap down their
> tongues when the inspector came around. he treated them like
> children and they could have spun circles around him with their
> combined knowledge of kilns. he made many demands that were
> not founded, yet
> they had to go `with him` or not get the kiln. in my opinion, there
original
> kiln was much safer than the inspector made them build.
>
> when building kilns, it is important to know what you are doing.
> seek advice, get plans, fire proof things, acquire sound information
> and knowledge before you build...plan, plan. get more insurance,
> and if you have a good city government, use their information.
>
> actually i believe that the fire marshall his your best friend, but
> can be a nightmare if he/she is un/informed about kilns.
>
> when faced with city government and kilns....you will walk
> a very fine tightrope. i cannot advise anyone what to do about
> that. it depends on where you live. all locals are different.
> safety, pollution effects, care and concern are critical. know what you
> are doing. when you do not, well, it ruins it for all.
> mel
> hard to build a woodfired kiln in manhatten.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>
>
> FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Susan Kosko on tue 3 oct 00
i'm watching this thread with alot of interest because i'm in the process of buying
a gas kiln. the first thing i did - after meeting with jim bailey and deciding on
a bailey kiln - was sit down with our building inspector. i live on a lake in a
small town in central new hampshire. one thing we've found is that it's unwise to
circumvent the building inspector. we worked with him when we did an addition on
our house, and everything went smoothly.
he told me the first thing i needed to do was get a home occupation permit (a local
requirement for any home-based business). i've done that - after being honest with
the planning board, they approved my application unanimously. now our architect is
working with the building inspector and jim bailey, and if necessary the fire
chief, to design what we want to be a safe kiln building. luckily the building
inspector is a decent person - when i told him that i was buying a kiln, he told me
that he would have no issues with a manufactured kiln, but would look closer if i
built a kiln. it doesn't mean he would have had problems with a built kiln, just
that it might not be as easy a process.
i can't imagine anything more heartbreaking than getting through with building a
kiln and having the building department shut you down permanently.
it may cost us a little more money in the long run to get it done right, but it's
worth it to me. this is a small town, and we have a small (0.38 acre) but very
visible property, so we couldn't hide the kiln even if we wanted to.
i'll update clayart as anything interesting develops with my approval process. i
hope this happens before winter really sets in, but at this point i think it will
be spring...
susan kosko
new durham, nh, usa
Don Hunt on tue 3 oct 00
Beyond which, once government is involved, don't forget all the other agencies
which might be interested. Zoning, taxation, air quality,department of defense ...
Our main protection against government is anonymity as we pursue our obsolete
passion
mel jacobson wrote:
> one has to be very careful here.
>
> there is a fine line between building kilns and breaking
> the law.
>
> many of the laws and systems in place in communities
> have little to do with home based kilns. they are systems for industry
> and commercial application.
>
> when a potter tries to do all the hoops, they get caught in
> `no mans land`....and the city just dumps them.
>
> many of the inspectors are not knowledgeable in kiln construction
> and firing practice.
>
> it just happened in our area. the inspector would not allow
> electronic ignition on a very well designed kiln...state of the
> art....they had to take it off and put on pilot lights....not state
> of the art....total cost about $1,000 additional to the kiln.
>
> donald by the way, is an outstanding attorney...and a very
> good clayarter, that i have met. he is not intending to break
> the law. he is saying that sometimes it is better to go ahead
> and build a small kiln with the neighbors knowledge. to
> kick the bee hive of city government is almost a sure way
> to get a great big headache. i like to think he is saying..
> `you will never get permission, but, you may get forgiveness.`
> it was my motto being an art teacher.
>
> if we had some standards nationwide...and i believe there should
> be. it would be much easier to approach an old plumber that is
> now an inspector. he normally does not have a clue what you are up to..
> all he knows is that you are dumb and cannot do it...and if you
> happen to be a woman, well you do not have a chance. he will
> assume you are a dummy.
>
> the dock six women had to grit their teeth, strap down their
> tongues when the inspector came around. he treated them like
> children and they could have spun circles around him with their
> combined knowledge of kilns. he made many demands that were
> not founded, yet
> they had to go `with him` or not get the kiln. in my opinion, there original
> kiln was much safer than the inspector made them build.
>
> when building kilns, it is important to know what you are doing.
> seek advice, get plans, fire proof things, acquire sound information
> and knowledge before you build...plan, plan. get more insurance,
> and if you have a good city government, use their information.
>
> actually i believe that the fire marshall his your best friend, but
> can be a nightmare if he/she is un/informed about kilns.
>
> when faced with city government and kilns....you will walk
> a very fine tightrope. i cannot advise anyone what to do about
> that. it depends on where you live. all locals are different.
> safety, pollution effects, care and concern are critical. know what you
> are doing. when you do not, well, it ruins it for all.
> mel
> hard to build a woodfired kiln in manhatten.
>
> FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>
> FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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