BBarus on sat 20 oct 01
Need more advice: I just accepted a memorial piece last night and I figure
I will need in excess of 6000 stars - I cut about a hundred from my
porcelain clay yesterday, but I am not pleased with the results -- too slow
and too sloppy. I am using a metal cookie cutter and it just didn't work
well at all. The stars will be fired gold and have the individual's names
so they have to be about an inch and a half when out of the high
fire. That means I need to cut at about 2 1/4 inches. (that's how much
this porcelain loses in the fire.) DOes anyone have a source for a person
that makes custom wire clay cutters? I would like to have all the pieces
ready to go by March and at this rate I won't be done with even the stars
until after the first of the year. Any advice much appreciated.
Thanx
Barb
Marie Gibbons on sat 20 oct 01
could you find or have made a star shaped extruder die and then you could
extrude a long star shape and cut them into the thickness you need
marie gibbons
www.oooladies.com
Cindy Strnad on sat 20 oct 01
Dear Barb,
I suggest you make one gorgeous star, then make
yourself a press mold or maybe 10 or 20 or 50
press molds.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
cindy@earthen-vessels-pottery.com
http://www.earthen-vessels-pottery.com
Diane Winters on sat 20 oct 01
Barb,
If your star cookie cutter was the right size, just gave sloppy results, try
laying a single sheet of the plastic used for kitchen trash bag liners over
the slab of clay before cutting. Cut all the way to the bottom, then lift
the cutter and peel off the plastic. The result SHOULD be (clay doesn't
always obey the shoulds) not only a cleanly cut star, but softly rounded
"finished" edges. Depending on the firmness of your clay you might have to
try the slightly firmer plastic from the black garbage bags or something
thinner, filmier like dry cleaner bags.
This I leaned from a larger scale version in a small tile/switchplate/frame
factory - all of us artisan tile makers in the tour group gasped audibly as
the plastic was lifted off.
Diane
in Oakland/Berkeley by the Bay
diane@winterstileworks.com
-----Original Message-----
From: BBarus
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Saturday, October 20, 2001 1:29 PM
Subject: Need advice on cutting stars:re:memorial
>Need more advice: I just accepted a memorial piece last night and I figure
>I will need in excess of 6000 stars - I cut about a hundred from my
>porcelain clay yesterday, but I am not pleased with the results -- too slow
>and too sloppy. I am using a metal cookie cutter and it just didn't work
>well at all. The stars will be fired gold and have the individual's names
>so they have to be about an inch and a half when out of the high
>fire. That means I need to cut at about 2 1/4 inches. (that's how much
>this porcelain loses in the fire.) DOes anyone have a source for a person
>that makes custom wire clay cutters? I would like to have all the pieces
>ready to go by March and at this rate I won't be done with even the stars
>until after the first of the year. Any advice much appreciated.
>Thanx
>Barb
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Giles on sat 20 oct 01
I would cut a star shaped extruder die, extrude star shaped logs, and slice
them to whatever thickness you need. let the extrusion set up a little so
it doesn't deform too much when you cut it. Much faster than pushing 6000
stars out of a cookie cutter.
Kristen Giles
mgiles@onramp.net
.
Tommy Humphries on sat 20 oct 01
perhaps this would be the ideal project for an extruder...make a star shaped
die, squeeze out 6" or so of star clay, let set for a bit then slice into
even slices with a wire. If you have no extruder, then this would be a
great time to get one!
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From: "BBarus"
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 11:14 AM
Subject: Need advice on cutting stars:re:memorial
> Need more advice: I just accepted a memorial piece last night and I
figure
> I will need in excess of 6000 stars - I cut about a hundred from my
> porcelain clay yesterday, but I am not pleased with the results -- too
slow
> and too sloppy. I am using a metal cookie cutter and it just didn't work
> well at all. The stars will be fired gold and have the individual's names
> so they have to be about an inch and a half when out of the high
> fire. That means I need to cut at about 2 1/4 inches. (that's how much
> this porcelain loses in the fire.) DOes anyone have a source for a person
> that makes custom wire clay cutters? I would like to have all the pieces
> ready to go by March and at this rate I won't be done with even the stars
> until after the first of the year. Any advice much appreciated.
> Thanx
> Barb
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
BBarus on sun 21 oct 01
Ok, but remember I am an absolute newbie at this non-slip fired poured or
wheel tossed thing - totally self taught. What is a press mold, and from
what do I fashion it? Also, any good books on the subject? Thanks for all
these good ideas - I really do appreciate it.
Barb
At 03:29 PM 10/20/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Dear Barb,
>
>I suggest you make one gorgeous star, then make
>yourself a press mold or maybe 10 or 20 or 50
>press molds.
>
>Cindy Strnad
>Earthen Vessels Pottery
>RR 1, Box 51
>Custer, SD 57730
>USA
>cindy@earthen-vessels-pottery.com
>http://www.earthen-vessels-pottery.com
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Cindy Strnad on sun 21 oct 01
Hi, Barb.
A press mold is a shallow mold into which you can
press a small amount of clay, then remove it from
the back/top. It doesn't require the use of slip
for pouring. However the idea others posted of
using an extruder may be more practical. There are
good books on mold making out there, but others
are more qualified to comment on this subject than
me.
Best wishes,
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
cindy@earthen-vessels-pottery.com
http://www.earthen-vessels-pottery.com
Bruce Girrell on sun 21 oct 01
Barb Barus wrote:
> I will need in excess of 6000 stars - I cut about a hundred from my
> porcelain clay yesterday, but I am not pleased with the results -- too
slow
> and too sloppy. I am using a metal cookie cutter and it just didn't work
> well at all.
I can't help you find someone to make custom cutters, but I do know that
they exist. What I can offer is a suggestion on how to make the ones that
you do have work better.
First, let the clay stiffen considerably before you try to cut. The biggest
problem that I have encountered with cutters is that the cutter deforms -
sometimes destroys - the shape as it is lifted from the clay. Let the clay
get to leather hard before cutting. You want the clay to hold to itself more
than it wants to stick to the metal.
Speaking of sticking to metal, the second suggestion is to provide a release
agent for the cutter - oil, soap, whatever - so that the cutter sticks less
to begin with.
If you do manage to find someone to make a custom cutter for you, have them
avoid frilly details or any other thin areas.
Good luck,
Bruce "not from the usual cookie cutter" Girrell
Michael Wendt on sun 21 oct 01
Barb,
One final thought to all the great suggestions: build a precision wire
slicer to cut the stars out of the extrusion. Have a hinge made that
connects to a piece of 3/4" steel rod bent into an inverted "U" shape.
(pseudo sketch below)
_____
o________[ ]_/
Weld four 9" lengths of 1/2" diameter threaded rod to the two vertical
portions of the inverted "U" (in this illustration, half of each rod would
be sticking into the screen and half would be sticking out of the screen),
two so that they are parallel and will touch the table when you cut and two
at the top bend in the "U" so that you can thread 1./2" nuts in pairs to the
top threaded rods. Now you can place two nuts on the top left rod and insert
a fine piece of piano wire or the "E" string from a guitar between the two
nuts and tighten them. Then wind the wire around the four rods at any
desired spacing and when you have created enough slicing sections, put two
more 1/2" nuts on another top rod and clamp the wire between them too. You
can make the wire assembly tighter or looser by rotating both clamped nuts
on either end in unison. One direction tightens, the other loosens. The key
to this slicer is the hinge. The hinge cannot have any slop or the slices
come out wavy. Mine was made on a lathe and if you need more help, this is
the kind of equipment I build for people so contact me off list.
Regards,
Michael Wendt wendtpot@lewiston.com
Tommy wrote to Barb:
perhaps this would be the ideal project for an extruder...make a star shaped
die, squeeze out 6" or so of star clay, let set for a bit then slice into
even slices with a wire. If you have no extruder, then this would be a
great time to get one!
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From: "BBarus"
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 11:14 AM
Subject: Need advice on cutting stars:re:memorial
> Need more advice: I just accepted a memorial piece last night and I
figure
> I will need in excess of 6000 stars - I cut about a hundred from my
> porcelain clay yesterday, but I am not pleased with the results -- too
slow
> and too sloppy. I am using a metal cookie cutter and it just didn't work
> well at all. The stars will be fired gold and have the individual's names
> so they have to be about an inch and a half when out of the high
> fire. That means I need to cut at about 2 1/4 inches. (that's how much
> this porcelain loses in the fire.) DOes anyone have a source for a person
> that makes custom wire clay cutters? I would like to have all the pieces
> ready to go by March and at this rate I won't be done with even the stars
> until after the first of the year. Any advice much appreciated.
> Thanx
> Barb
Clayhannie@AOL.COM on sun 21 oct 01
If you use a cookie cutter type of shape, roll cleaner bag plastic or plastic
wrap over the clay slabs, then press the cutter through the plastic and the
clay. The cutter will release clean and will leave a nice rounded surface on
the clay, saving the effort of smoothing the edges.
Martha Griffith
Wanda Holmes on sun 21 oct 01
A friend who is a printer suggests contacting a "steel rule die" company to
make a custom cutter. I put parentheses around the phrase because I had no
idea what a steel rule die was. I am a tile maker and I had this discussion
with my friend because of a complex tessalation that I want to produce.
I've found a steel rule die company in San Antonio that is making the die
for me for about $35.00. I'll post again when it arrives and I've had a
chance to try it. Contact me offlist if you want the phone number of the
San Antonio company.
Wanda
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Bruce Girrell
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 9:02 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Need advice on cutting stars:re:memorial
Barb Barus wrote:
> I will need in excess of 6000 stars - I cut about a hundred from my
> porcelain clay yesterday, but I am not pleased with the results -- too
slow
> and too sloppy. I am using a metal cookie cutter and it just didn't work
> well at all.
I can't help you find someone to make custom cutters, but I do know that
they exist. What I can offer is a suggestion on how to make the ones that
you do have work better.
First, let the clay stiffen considerably before you try to cut. The biggest
problem that I have encountered with cutters is that the cutter deforms -
sometimes destroys - the shape as it is lifted from the clay. Let the clay
get to leather hard before cutting. You want the clay to hold to itself more
than it wants to stick to the metal.
Speaking of sticking to metal, the second suggestion is to provide a release
agent for the cutter - oil, soap, whatever - so that the cutter sticks less
to begin with.
If you do manage to find someone to make a custom cutter for you, have them
avoid frilly details or any other thin areas.
Good luck,
Bruce "not from the usual cookie cutter" Girrell
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
John Post on sun 21 oct 01
I have had good success with cookie cutters and leather hard slabs.
The trick is to keep a shallow bowl of water next to you and dip the cutter
in it each time before you press it into the slab. The water will help your
leather hard stars to just fall out of the cookie cutter without warping.
Dry the stars between small scraps of drywall to prevent warping.
The extruder method sounds like a real pain to me...
Cheers,
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan USA
BBarus on mon 22 oct 01
I actually have decided on the method Which Janet from the Clay chaple
described. I was in an accident about 5 years ago and almost lost my right
arm. I have regained use of it but it is still too weak to do "press" work
such is required by an extruder. Over the weekend my son made me a grid on
which we soldered fifty cookie cutters and then he jigged me a press out
board. He spent about ten hours doing it so I owe him a lot of bread and
cherry pies. Then the grandchildren helped me make about 1200 stars
(Granny didn't cook - we ordered chinese) and yes some of them did curl,
but since each of the stars is for a unique individual I kind of like it.
So as they come out of the soft fire I will clean up the most sticky-up and
just love the others. This work will go on a three paneled curved wall
about 20 feet long and eight feet high - each panel being cemented and
smooth, five feet wide and six feet high, recessed into the wall about an
inch. I like texture and in this sort of application smoothness is not the
object. this way I can get the gold smalti to REALLY glitter.
I cannot begin to tell you how gratified and astonished I am at the
response I have received to my questions! You people really care!
I have also been almost overwhelmed by my local community support: from
people I have never even met. One man who owns a night club gave me three
of those big globes covered with mirror tiles - they are just styro-foam -
and the mirrors snap off like garlic peels. Thousands of free mirror
tile. What wealth! Another company that makes tiles has given me five
cases of assorted blue glass tiles (originally for swimming pools)that I
can cut easily. A building company has donated the cement block that will
be the interior of the wall, and two master masons from Florence Italy have
offered to lay the stone sublatum. Since I am donating my time and work and
only getting funded for materials, this has been a wonderment to me - a
chance to give back to the great community a little of what it has given me
over the years. I'll post pictures as the work progresses.
BTW - the wall will be in a private memorial park - the one side for the
mosaic memorial and the other side left blank so people of the community
can place their own tiles etc. there. I hope to engage the kids in the
local schools but I am not a great teacher of method and will need some
cooperation from the teachers ... so I'll see how that goes.
Thank you to everyone Barb
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