Terrance Lazaroff on mon 25 feb 02
One of my clients asked me for advice about how one should begin collecting
ceramics.
I would be interested in you points of view.
Terrance
Nanci Bishof on tue 26 feb 02
My first question when considering purchasing any artwork is whether or not I
like it. Second is whether or not it fits within my budget. Third is do I
think I'll regret it if I don't purchase the work. If all three answers are
yes then I buy.
nanci
lela martens on tue 26 feb 02
There are collecters, then there are `collectors`, depending on their
objectives. Are they looking to invest, then a big name. Personally my
dearest pots are from friends. I have an Artimater vase I just love and a
little black tea bowl a friend brought back from Japan, and the cup I
exchanged with Bamboo Karen in the exchange last year, and a bowl from a
great potter in my guild.
It depends on where the person is coming from. Monitarily I wouldn`t know,
the heart leads me.From Lela who is woozie from varsol and latex resit
fumes, taking a break with the door open even though it is cold outside.
>From: Terrance Lazaroff
>Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Collecting ceramics advice
>Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:44:28 -0500
>
>One of my clients asked me for advice about how one should begin collecting
>ceramics.
>
>I would be interested in you points of view.
>
>
>Terrance
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
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Lee Love on tue 26 feb 02
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terrance Lazaroff"
> One of my clients asked me for advice about how one should begin collecting
> ceramics.
>
> I would be interested in you points of view.
Hi Terrance,
What perspective do they have on collecting? A friend of mine met us
at Kasama on sunday. Kasama is where the original potters came from to start
the pottery business here in Mashiko. My friend rode the train in from
Yokahama. We went to the Ibaraki Ceramics Museum to see the Kanjiro Kawaii
show there. I really liked this show. I enjoyed it more than the Kawaii
show I saw in Osaka a few years back at the Mingeikan there. This one covered
the whole span of his career and included some smaller (more intimate), early
work. I really enjoyed his smaller functional work.
We also had some fresh soba noodles and soba ice-cream at a nearby soba
shop. Then we went to an antique shop. The guy there knows a lot about
Mashiko, Kasama and Seto pottery. He told us how to tell a Seto horse eye
plate from a Mashiko one (Kasama didn't put horse eyes on their plates, while
Mashiko got many of its designs from Seto.) Tatsuo, my friend, and I have very
different perspectives on collecting. He is hoping to open an
antique/Japanese folkcraft and contemporary craft shop in Seattle. He buys to
resell. In Japan, chipped or crack pottery is acceptable, but back in the
states, it is harder to sell. So he is careful to find things in very good
condition and things he thinks he can resell. On the other hand, I buy things
that I find interesting and might influence my work. They can have flaws:
chips and cracks, missing handles or spouts, they can be old or brand new, I
don't care. Usually, it has to be a form that speaks to me.
Tatsuo ended up buying a small, black Kasama tsubo/jar. I bought a
Kasama tokuri/sake flask that had a faint hairline crack at the belly. Had
Sage/Copper green dipped at the top. I don't think it leaks. My pot cost
a fraction of what my friend's did. I only paid about $15.00. There were more
expensive tokuri I could have bought and I probably could have made some money
off of them reselling them. But few of the more expensive tokuri we as nice as
the cracked one I bought.
In general, I'd go with Hamada's advice: "The best pots for me are the
pots that I like." --Shoji Hamada (1894-1978)
--
Lee Love In Mashiko Ikiru@kami.com
ttp://www.awanomachi-tcg.ed.jp/mashiko.html
Dave Gayman on tue 26 feb 02
Wow, won't this one be fun...
In addition to the basic skill, creating disposable income, these come to mind:
1. Take 2 courses in ceramics. Any two, using any means -- private
teacher, adult ed., community college, extension services. This gives good
background in how clay objects are made. With good teachers you learn
appropriate weight and wall thicknesses, finish, glazing, and handling, and
what can go wrong with each. It's also fun.
2. Read. There is a lot of material on the archeology, history, and
esthetics of clay objects, and a lot of "collectibles" books on specific,
popular ceramic types (e.g., Staffordshire pottery / figurines). They all
are wrong at some point of other, but if you read enough of them, the
errors begin to cancel themselves out. Then your client can figure out
which avenue of ceramics to focus on.
3. Visit museums. Because clay objects tend to be more durable than
fabric, paper, wood, or paint and plaster, museums have extensive
collections of clay. Some (but not all) of these collections reflect the
current taste concerning desirability and esthetic superiority. Note that
this will not help future value, as the future values things differently
than we do.
4. Go to galleries and art fairs. Talk with the creators of objects for
sale there (not just the gallery owners). Buy a lot of pots from people
who drive 14-year-old vans, as this will support the profession in
general. If the artist is pretentious, supercilious or smug, move on to
another gallery or booth. Clay embodies the spirit of its maker.
5. Remain aware that ceramics can be almost a religious experience. It
can also be one of the worst examples of C-level society fawning over and
emulating A-level behaviors of generations past. Staffordshire dogs are a
laboratory example of the latter -- ugly pieces based on demented house
pets, badly decorated, and almost certain early death to the children and
young, virtual slaves who made them, but much admired by the upper classes
in the 19th Century.
6. Always pay what an artist asks -- in fact, commission pieces and pay
MORE -- and always ask dealers for a lower price. This will help redress
imbalances in society in general. It won't help the fact that your prices
go up after you're dead, but you can't have everything.
Dave
At 11:44 PM 2/25/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>One of my clients asked me for advice about how one should begin collecting
>ceramics.
>
>I would be interested in you points of view.
>
>
>Terrance
Kurt Wild on tue 26 feb 02
At 11:44 PM 2/25/02 -0500, you wrote:
>One of my clients asked me for advice about how one should begin collecting
>ceramics.
>
>I would be interested in you points of view.
Terrance:
I would suggest your client check out the "On-line Art Pottery Discussion
Group" section of the American Art Pottery Association web site
at http://www.amartpot.org/
Kurt Wild
River Falls, WI 54022
email: kurtwild@attbi.com
web site: http://wwwpp.uwrf.edu/~kw77/
most current work: http://wwwpp.uwrf.edu/~kw77/Available.html
Craig Clark on tue 26 feb 02
Terrance, I'm not trying to be flippant hear but tell them three simple
thing. to consider.....How does it look (do they like it), how does it feel
(pick up the pots and run your hands over them or caress a sculpture) and
how much does it cost. Tell them to look at as much work as they can before
taking the plunge. Festivals, museums, galleries, libraries,etc.
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terrance Lazaroff"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 10:44 PM
Subject: Collecting ceramics advice
> One of my clients asked me for advice about how one should begin
collecting
> ceramics.
>
> I would be interested in you points of view.
>
>
> Terrance
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Tony Ferguson on tue 26 feb 02
Terrance,
Tell your client to look at my web site. he he. Tell him or her to look
around and find what he or she likes. Then research the artist, see if they
jive. Then, start buying. Ask them if they are collecting for investment
or collecting for personal aesthetic. Investment requires research--contact
museums, galleries, find out what they are collecting and why. Personal
aesthetic--look around and buy what they like. Simple.
Thank you!
Tony Ferguson
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku
www.aquariusartgallery.com
Photographic, Web Site, & Marketing Services for Artists
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 401
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terrance Lazaroff"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 8:44 PM
Subject: Collecting ceramics advice
> One of my clients asked me for advice about how one should begin
collecting
> ceramics.
>
> I would be interested in you points of view.
>
>
> Terrance
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
m markey on tue 26 feb 02
Hi Terrance!
Here are some thoughts about your inquiry:
The collector of ceramic art and pottery needs to buy something that he or
she likes. This is a personal choice, something that's not easily defined.
The collector needs space in one's house (or elsewhere)to display and to
enjoy the ceramic art. Ceramic art is breakable, and heavy art can break
bones when it falls! So protection of the piece from toddlers and cats is
needed, as is a sturdy shelf.
Have fun while choosing ceramic ware. I see far too many "serious"
collectors out there! Smile and enjoy the journey of collecting.
Best wishes and happy collecting!
Mohabee NakedClay@hotmail.com
Best wishes!
Mohabee NakedClay@hotmail.com
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Terrance Lazaroff on wed 27 feb 02
Thanks for the Input.
You wrote: " The collector needs space in one's house (or elsewhere)to
display and to
enjoy the ceramic art. Ceramic art is breakable, and heavy art can break
bones when it falls! So protection of the piece from toddlers and cats is
needed, as is a sturdy shelf."
I was wondering if it is a good Idea to recommend that a collector have
custom made boxes to store the collection when it is not being displayed. I
think of Hamada's collection. Much if it is stored in boxes and the pieces
only come out from time to time.
Again Thanks
Terrance
Best wishes!
Mohabee NakedClay@hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Terrance Lazaroff on wed 27 feb 02
Subject: Re: Collecting ceramics advice
Craig;
You wrote;
"how much does it cost."
Do you feel taht one should establish a budget or limit the amount paied per
object?
Does this have to do with anticipating a resale value some time in the
future?
Should we look at collecting as an investment?
Terrance
Terrance Lazaroff on wed 27 feb 02
Tony;
Well said. I looked at your web site many times which raises a question.
Should we encourage collecting in terms of type of ceramic. For example if
one was to ask what type of ceramic to start collecting, should we refer
them to raku or shinos or whatever or should we just point them at a ceramic
store and say "go forth and buy".
Your point about investment is also one that came up in the discussion. I
feel that this is a longshot. but some people feel that once one has a large
collection of similar objects the value will be present, I have one friend
who collects ceramic egg cups. I thought this was crazy until I found that
the set was evaluated in the thousands because he had a few rare objects in
the collection. I also noticed that Hummel collectors who stated 30 to 40
years ago have a good value on their pieces.
I personally prefer collecting for the enjoyment of changing the dinner
table serving vessels. I like celedons for serving carrots and Shino's for
serving ice cream. But learning to appreciate the work for itself also takes
time. My wife, for example, has, after all these years begun to appreciate
the chun blues. This was a monumental movement forward for her as she is a
Tupperware girl.
Anyway thanks for your help
Terrance
Terrance Lazaroff on wed 27 feb 02
Kurt;
Thanks for the great site. I will pass this along to those with the
questions. Wow.
Best regards
Terrance
Terrance Lazaroff on wed 27 feb 02
lela;
I like what you say. Most of my collection is also from friends. I also
get great joy in collection mass produced objects. I do this because I can
find lots to choose from at garage sales and flea markets. I was lucky,
recently, I found a pot made by one of my profs. that dated 1960. I bet
he would give his right arm to get it back. It was from the oatmeal glaze
on stoneware period.
Terrance.
Terrance Lazaroff on wed 27 feb 02
Lee;
I feel the my client's perspective is a bit of a shotgun at this time. The
client has purchased ceramic work over the last 5 years and is now is trying
to decide where to go with the collecting experience. I feel that the fun
part is there. What is needed now is the decision to focus on one specific
type of work. But I don't want to impart my personal likes and dislikes on
what to collect..
The collection is growing and it is getting to a point where the client
wants to start documenting the collecting.
I am not sure if the collection is leaning towards Japanese work. as most of
collection was amassed from regional potters.
I will pass on the Hamada quote.
Thankyou
Terrance
In general, I'd go with Hamada's advice: "The best pots for me are the
pots that I like." --Shoji Hamada (1894-1978)
Terrance Lazaroff on wed 27 feb 02
Nanci;
simple philosophy, If it works for you It may work for others.
Thank you.
Terrance
Terrance Lazaroff on wed 27 feb 02
Dave;
Your advice is well received. I will surely pass on your ideas.
Taking courses is very good advice. I found that many of my students come
to our coop to purchase ceramics. Once they try to do it them selves they
gain a better appreciation for the process. The prices of works become more
reasonable.
Your point about reading has been mentioned. I heard somewhere that potters
and ceramists are big collectors perhaps it is because they read up a lot on
the art and they also practice it.
Your point about durability. Do you feel that it would be ok to recommend
to anyone beginning to collect to focus on functional or decorative? If
someone is beginning to collect functional work they would need to be
up-to-date on toxicity and glazes. Whereas if they went to decorative the
glaze tox. would be less important. What do you think?
Terrance
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Gayman"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: Collecting ceramics advice
> Wow, won't this one be fun...
>
> In addition to the basic skill, creating disposable income, these come to
mind:
>
> 1. Take 2 courses in ceramics. Any two, using any means -- private
> teacher, adult ed., community college, extension services. This gives
good
> background in how clay objects are made. With good teachers you learn
> appropriate weight and wall thicknesses, finish, glazing, and handling,
and
> what can go wrong with each. It's also fun.
>
> 2. Read. There is a lot of material on the archeology, history, and
> esthetics of clay objects, and a lot of "collectibles" books on specific,
> popular ceramic types (e.g., Staffordshire pottery / figurines). They all
> are wrong at some point of other, but if you read enough of them, the
> errors begin to cancel themselves out. Then your client can figure out
> which avenue of ceramics to focus on.
>
> 3. Visit museums. Because clay objects tend to be more durable than
> fabric, paper, wood, or paint and plaster, museums have extensive
> collections of clay. Some (but not all) of these collections reflect the
> current taste concerning desirability and esthetic superiority. Note
that
> this will not help future value, as the future values things differently
> than we do.
>
> 4. Go to galleries and art fairs. Talk with the creators of objects for
> sale there (not just the gallery owners). Buy a lot of pots from people
> who drive 14-year-old vans, as this will support the profession in
> general. If the artist is pretentious, supercilious or smug, move on to
> another gallery or booth. Clay embodies the spirit of its maker.
>
> 5. Remain aware that ceramics can be almost a religious experience. It
> can also be one of the worst examples of C-level society fawning over and
> emulating A-level behaviors of generations past. Staffordshire dogs are a
> laboratory example of the latter -- ugly pieces based on demented house
> pets, badly decorated, and almost certain early death to the children and
> young, virtual slaves who made them, but much admired by the upper classes
> in the 19th Century.
>
> 6. Always pay what an artist asks -- in fact, commission pieces and pay
> MORE -- and always ask dealers for a lower price. This will help redress
> imbalances in society in general. It won't help the fact that your prices
> go up after you're dead, but you can't have everything.
>
> Dave
>
> At 11:44 PM 2/25/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >One of my clients asked me for advice about how one should begin
collecting
> >ceramics.
> >
> >I would be interested in you points of view.
> >
> >
> >Terrance
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Julie Milazzo on fri 1 mar 02
Quite simply, I buy what I love. This seems to work,
and I've recently upgraded from teabowls and coffee
mugs (which I love and use, and are affordable) to my
first larger purchase- a Richard Aerni bowl, which was
actually very affordable for what it was, but was very
expensive for what I had, but I still had to have it.
It always helps to meet the artist, as memories can be
incorporated with the piece and make it more special.
Every time I pick up my Woody Hughes teabowl, I
remember the year I spent living on Long Island, the
Tom Collins teabowl reminds me of the six months in
Sonoma. Very nomadic times, but it's also nice to be
able to collect more diverse pieces, while still
keeping around one hundred dollars or less. Instead of
rememberances over tea and coffee, I got to think
about the Richard Aerni workshop as I loaded his bowl
with egg noodles, cauliflower and asperagus. Yum yum.
So anyway, I'm beginning to associate men with food,
and really want to establish some works from females
into my slowly growing collection. If anyone knows of
any fantastic women who have unique, well crafted
reasonably priced pieces (sorry, but am in the process
of getting a huge business loan, and really need to be
cheap), please feel free to lead me to some websites.
I adore the works of Lana Wilson, Susan Filley, Jane
Hamlyn and Ruthann Tudball, but wouldn't mind the work
of more obscure potters as well. I don't wish to
exclude men, and would also welcome more work made by
men, but looking around, I have one coffee mug made by
a supremely talented Jane Becker (Long Island), and
around fifteen other pieces from male potters. I would
also be willing to make some trades once I get a gas
kiln... Thanks, Julie Milazzo
--- Craig Clark wrote:
> Terrance, I'm not trying to be flippant hear but
> tell them three simple
> thing. to consider.....How does it look (do they
> like it), how does it feel
> (pick up the pots and run your hands over them or
> caress a sculpture) and
> how much does it cost. Tell them to look at as much
> work as they can before
> taking the plunge. Festivals, museums, galleries,
> libraries,etc.
> Craig Dunn Clark
> 619 East 11 1/2 st
> Houston, Texas 77008
> (713)861-2083
> mudman@hal-pc.org
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terrance Lazaroff"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 10:44 PM
> Subject: Collecting ceramics advice
>
>
> > One of my clients asked me for advice about how
> one should begin
> collecting
> > ceramics.
> >
> > I would be interested in you points of view.
> >
> >
> > Terrance
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or
> change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
__________________________________________________
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