Cindi Anderson on thu 2 may 02
You're heart is in the right place, but I think you are nuts. UPS doesn't
care about a few dozen or even a few thousand potters. At my old job, we
used them to ship millions of dollars of stuff per year, and they didn't
care how they handled the product. Their philosophy was to move as fast as
possible, and just deal (or not deal) with the complaints. That's why they
ring your bell and don't stay for you to sign for your package. They can
move faster, make more money, and just pay claims when people say they
didn't get something. Although it sounds like now they might not pay as
many claims.
Insurance fraud, maybe you can get their attention with that, I don't know.
But "why should I use you?" Come on, they are a multi billion dollar
company. Maybe I'm a cynic but I believe you are naive if you think they
will care.
Just my opinion of course!
Cindi
Michele Williams on thu 2 may 02
Folks,
I'm an activist, meaning I don't just lie down and invite others to walk all
over me. If this is what others among you are experiencing, then let the
strength of your numbers apply.
1. Survey: How many and who are you who've had similar experience to
Richard's?
2. Letters: Each one of you should write a letter to UPS public relations,
customer relations, and customer assistance departments. A marketing exec
or two and a VP would probably be nice, too. Explain the dollar amounts
you've lost in breakage with proper packaging on insured claims which should
have been covered. Like Richard, compare now to the past. Then pull the
trigger. "Can you explain to me why I should continue to use your services
when other delivery services not only honor the terms of the delivery
contract but also honor the insurance I purchase through them? I do not
care that your company has contracted for the insurance. If the insurance
does not cover what it says it covers, it is fraud. If your firm
participates in a fraudulent scheme, it is a guilty as the firm that
defrauds your customers.
Until my previous losses are covered by payments equal to the amount of
insurance for which I paid, I will not use your firm for my package delivery
again. After settlement of my claim, any future breakage which I experience
that occurs despite proper packing I shall expect to be honored as insured.
Any further breach of the insurance coverage contract may result in a filing
of a class action case for insurance fraud by all those whose letter are in
this package."
A whole package of those letters should be sufficient for a wake-up call.
You should send the same package of letters to your State's insurance
commissioner's office for their investigation. There's another wake-up
call.
We do a lot of stupid stuff in Florida, but insurance fraud is one of our
redneck no-no's.
Michele Williams
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Aerni"
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 4:26 PM
Subject: packing
> > Like I said yesterday. ....Insure...insure...insure.
> > Let the shipper buy what they break!!
> > How else can they be forced to handle important packages correctly?
> > Regards,
> > Dale
>
> With today's UPS, insuring really doesn't make any difference. As of the
> last year or two, they've sold off their insurance payout arm to another
> company. What that means is, that in order for this company to make any
> money on the claims reimbursement business, they've got to make sure that
> they pay out less than they pay for their own insurance on the UPS
> claims...ergo, it is in their best interests to deny your claims.
>
> When I first set up my business to deal with wholesale, and shipping, I
> hired a packaging engineer to examine my product and my shipping needs,
and
> design several efficient and cost effective packing systems. Was money
well
> spent. I've been shipping pots now using these systems for twenty years.
> My breakage rate, is and has been, extremely low. Over 18 years I only
had
> one breakage claim rejected (by UPS). Since the new company has taken
over
> insurance claims from UPS, I've had five claims filed, and five rejected.
> Reason given...improper packaging, and insufficient packing materials. My
> UPS driver says that my boxes look the best of all he deals with on his
> route. I've had a UPS packing rep come out and watch me pack, and he
claims
> that I do everything by the book. Nevertheless, the claims are rejected,
> and when I talk to UPS about it, they say there is nothing they can do.
>
> When I was setting up my studio, I worked for the Post Office in the
parcel
> post branch, and handled parcels for two years. I know what they go
> through, and expect that rough treatment. What I don't expect is that
same
> rough treatment from the claims dept.
>
> Richard Aerni
> Bloomfield, NY
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Roger Korn on fri 3 may 02
One of the ultimate "consumer karate" moves has worked for me on two
occasions:
find the address of the CEO's home and write a polite note to his wife,
explaining
your position. After regular channels fail, all's fair!
Roger
Michele Williams wrote:
> Large corporations got that way by getting and keeping the business. They
> know that. They know there are competitors you can use, but if you are a
> regular shipper, they don't want to lose you, and if you're part of a
large
> organization (as ClayArt is) they don't want members sharing bad news
about
> bad practices because it could cost them many regular shippers. They DO
> listen to that. And DO get to their execs. Execs recognize a black eye
in
> the works when they see it. It works for me every time I do it.
>
> Give it a try. If it works, you'll get a lot more out of it than if you
> don't try, that's certain.
>
> Michele Williams
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
--
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
In AZ: PO Box 463
4215 Culpepper Ranch Rd
Rimrock, AZ 86335
928-567-5699 <-
In OR: PO Box 436
31330 NW Pacific Ave.
North Plains, OR 97133
503-647-5464
Michele Williams on fri 3 may 02
Large corporations got that way by getting and keeping the business. They
know that. They know there are competitors you can use, but if you are a
regular shipper, they don't want to lose you, and if you're part of a large
organization (as ClayArt is) they don't want members sharing bad news about
bad practices because it could cost them many regular shippers. They DO
listen to that. And DO get to their execs. Execs recognize a black eye in
the works when they see it. It works for me every time I do it.
Give it a try. If it works, you'll get a lot more out of it than if you
don't try, that's certain.
Michele Williams
Karen on fri 3 may 02
Cindi,
What you have to say is certainly valid on some level. However, studies
have been done that state that for each letter, each phone call, each
customer complaint form represents 100 unsatisfied customers. Okay so
extrapolate those numbers to also include all the folks those 100 folks
will tell about it.... that might be 100's or 1000's more. As potters with
customers we can tell every customer or ours why we no longer use a
particular product, including shippers. It certainly can have an impact.
The companies "goodwill" is being defamed.... granted by their own actions
or inactions.
I do tend to be somewhat cynical as well in that I believe the military,
government, and large corporations, will tend to do what is least effective
for the most amount of money. It seems like there motto is "If if makes
sense, we shouldn't do that"..... In other words, why respond to the
customer's claims? why pay them? that's wasting our money! eating our
profits! Cut taxes? Pay teachers what they are worth? Why? we need
payraises..... is often the cry of the politicians....
Oh well.... such are the ways of freedom and capitalism. It seems to be
all based on Greed.
Interesting that so many potters would indeed send work home with their
customer's and just tell them to send a check & that the customers would
actually do so! I remember the first time my friends did that when I was
standing there. It was a large purchase too. Apparently it is not the first
time she had done this, nor to my knowledge have they ever been
'stiffed'..... Needless to say we care more about producing our product,
the product itself AND the consumers who purchase our products..... too
bad, military, gov't & big business doesn't.
Someone on the list recently mentioned they prefer the local small hardware
store, b'cuz of the service. Those small-time long-standing, businesses are
my favorites to frequent. I always hate to see the small hardware stores
(among others) go out of business. They're much more fun & have many more
resources & assistance than most of the SuperStores do.
We can only stand up against what we dislike & Stand for what we believe
in....
regards,
Karen
(in NC.... still no real rain.... the temps flip-flop daily. One day HOT,
the next a tad chilly.)
Bobbruch1@AOL.COM on sat 4 may 02
My experience is that SOME large corporations, small companies and even
individuals take the attitude that they will deny claims or refuse to pay
receivables and debts, etc., etc ........ figuring that only a small
percentage of people will take the complaint very far, and thus they can
just
avoid paying whatever it is by stonewalling. If you find yourself on the
opposing side of one of these people or groups, often your only choices are
either to let it go, or to take legal action. And the other party knows that
most people won't take that extra step because of the time, cost and mental
anguish involved in that process.
JMHO - Bob Bruch
<<<From: Michele Williams
Subject: Re: What to do about denied insurance claims on packing
Large corporations got that way by getting and keeping the business. They
know that. They know there are competitors you can use, but if you are a
regular shipper, they don't want to lose you, and if you're part of a large
organization (as ClayArt is) they don't want members sharing bad news about
bad practices because it could cost them many regular shippers.
John Hesselberth on sat 4 may 02
on 5/3/02 11:32 PM, Roger Korn at rogerk1941@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:
> One of the ultimate "consumer karate" moves has worked for me on two
> occasions:
> find the address of the CEO's home and write a polite note to his wife,
> explaining
> your position. After regular channels fail, all's fair!
I've never tried the CEO's spouse trick, but I do have 30 years of
experience working in the management of a large corporation and a
perspective on how to get their attention. First NEVER bother with the
customer service people after the first blow-off. Give them one chance to
deal with your complaint and then don't waste any more time on them.
Find the name and address of the CEO and write directly to that person.
He/she will never see the letter himself, but a key staff member (probably
the CEO's secretary) will. All major corporations have a system to track
complaints like this. In DuPont, the CEO's secretary assigned the letter a
tracking number and decided to enter it in her "delegation" log or her
"action" log. Then she sent it down through the organization chain of
command. If it was an action log and you got it you had 3 days to either
act on it or send it one to someone else. And you had to tell the CEO's
secretary what you had done with it so she could continue to track it. These
were hot potatoes that go handled promptly. About the only thing worse than
having the CEO after you was to have the CEO's secretary after you. They
were tough customers. If it is a delegation log, you still had the act on
it promptly, but you don't have to feed the answer back upstairs until the
end of the process.
The more reasoned, rational, and serious you can make your case sound, the
more likely you were to get designated as an "action" log item. Also, of
course, the more potential the item has for getting on 60 minutes (the
nightmare of all CEOs) the more likely it was to get attention. But
irrational outburst, swearing, threats etc didn't help and, in fact, hurt
quite a bit.
Just a perspective from a world I used to live in. Been there, done that.
Regards,
John
Web sites: http://www.masteringglazes.com and http://www.frogpondpottery.com
Email: john@frogpondpottery.com
"Art is not a handicraft, it is the transmission of feeling the artist has
experienced." Leo Tolstoy, 1898
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