Michael Wendt on mon 22 dec 03
Andy,
Please pardon a personal question:
Are you married? If so, does your spouse support your goal of being a studio
potter? So much of the cost of living is lightened when there are two
incomes. One can be from pottery, the other from a different field. Both can
contribute to the family income.
If you know how to construct machinery and build, the startup cost for a
studio is really quite low when compared to other businesses. Think one man
size initially. You don't need a 100 cubic foot kiln. It will break you. I
fire two 12 cubic foot updrafts I built that use the same furniture for
added economy.
I still throw on the original potter's wheel I built in the early 70s.
I built all my other equipment and fixtures too, to save money.
Likewise, each time that I needed more space, I bought the materials a
little at a time until I could build on.
Over the years, my studio grew from one bedroom on the second floor in our
house to a two car garage I built behind the house to a 10,000 square foot
operation at which both my wife and I work full time.
To make it also requires nice pots people want to buy, salesmanship,
marketing skills and good business sense. It can be done. It never comes
with a guarantee, though. You pay your money and you take your chances.
Good Luck,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, ID 83501
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Andy wrote:
Maybe I'm just looking for a word of encouragement from someone who's been
there - I don't know. I do know that I spend my days at a mind numbing day
job, and have pictures of pots all over my cubicle...could anything be
worse???? Ha - surely it could...I just want to live to my fullest
potential, and wonder if anyone else has found themselves in this spot
before.
Thanks so much-
Andy Casto
Troy, Ohio
John Jensen on mon 22 dec 03
I'm going to say a few words here, hoping to help a little.
A young musician asked Rev. Gary Davis (the great blues and gospel
musician) how would he know when to start playing in front of people and
Davis said, "When they start asking you to."
It's a sort of a common sense, folksy answer that has always made a lot
of sense to me. I understand it to mean that you'll know when the time
is right (though as far as music is concerned, I take it literally.)
One big thing that stays in the front of my mind about deciding to
make it as an artist, craftsman, tradesman, or businessman is this: The
buck stops with you. You have to be in the state of mind of taking the
heat and pushing the wagon when you get stuck in the mud. When your
ship goes down and you are stuck somewhere in the middle of the ocean,
you have to strike out for land even if you don't have as much as a
lifeboat. As many will tell you fortune tends to favor the bold, but it
wouldn't be a risk if there wasn't some chance of disaster.
All that said, it does seem that very good living can be made in
pottery by those who have a fine product to offer, who love to work, and
are willing to take a realistic view of the market place.
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
mudbug@toadhouse.com , http://www.toadhouse.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
Andrew_M_Casto@PROGRESSIVE.COM
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 5:50 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Young potter needs advice
Hi folks - I'm new to writing in the list here, but I've been a reader
for
some time.
Currently I'm facing the eternal delema that I'm sure every "clay-type"
must face. Can I make a living...should I try to make a living...will I
be
able to feed my family on a living...as a potter?
I know the routine answer - if you can stand lots of work, if you really
love it, if you can work yourself dead every day and handle being broke
for
the 1st 10 years, etc...then go for it. OK, but seriously...
What I know is that a lot of folks do it, and some make a decent stab at
it. I also know that I have a fairly hard time doing anythingelse
everyday.
No I'm not nieve about the workload or the commitment needed - what I
know
is that pots make me happy, and I'm frustrated that I'm not living the
life
I know I could be. Like everyone else though, I have real world
expectations to meet too, like house payments a wife, expenses, etc,
My question is this...how does one take the plunge - how do you make
that
call that you're going give up the 9-5 job and all the benefits that
come
with it. And if you do it, how do you make it work?
Any resources (books, videos, etc) folks could recommend would be great.
Maybe I'm just looking for a word of encouragement from someone who's
been
there - I don't know. I do know that I spend my days at a mind numbing
day
job, and have pictures of pots all over my cubicle...could anything be
worse???? Ha - surely it could...I just want to live to my fullest
potential, and wonder if anyone else has found themselves in this spot
before.
Thanks so much-
Andy Casto
Troy, Ohio
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Andrew_M_Casto@PROGRESSIVE.COM on mon 22 dec 03
Hi folks - I'm new to writing in the list here, but I've been a reader for
some time.
Currently I'm facing the eternal delema that I'm sure every "clay-type"
must face. Can I make a living...should I try to make a living...will I be
able to feed my family on a living...as a potter?
I know the routine answer - if you can stand lots of work, if you really
love it, if you can work yourself dead every day and handle being broke for
the 1st 10 years, etc...then go for it. OK, but seriously...
What I know is that a lot of folks do it, and some make a decent stab at
it. I also know that I have a fairly hard time doing anythingelse everyday.
No I'm not nieve about the workload or the commitment needed - what I know
is that pots make me happy, and I'm frustrated that I'm not living the life
I know I could be. Like everyone else though, I have real world
expectations to meet too, like house payments a wife, expenses, etc,
My question is this...how does one take the plunge - how do you make that
call that you're going give up the 9-5 job and all the benefits that come
with it. And if you do it, how do you make it work?
Any resources (books, videos, etc) folks could recommend would be great.
Maybe I'm just looking for a word of encouragement from someone who's been
there - I don't know. I do know that I spend my days at a mind numbing day
job, and have pictures of pots all over my cubicle...could anything be
worse???? Ha - surely it could...I just want to live to my fullest
potential, and wonder if anyone else has found themselves in this spot
before.
Thanks so much-
Andy Casto
Troy, Ohio
Culling on tue 23 dec 03
I would suggest using the day job to set up with basic equipment and
materials , take the time to work out where you are going to be and try to
save a cushion so's to give yourself a year or two to develope a body of
work and a market for it.
Could you do some research into a couple of possible bread and butterlines
so's to be able to pay bills as well as get your feet under you?
Find a speciality range, packaging and a logo and see if you can find a
market. GOOD LUCK!
(My 50 mile radius has roughly 16000 people in it so I can't make a living
from only my local area so am still working on alternative venues further
away for my work. Would be ok but the buggers keep folding up at the
moment!!! I know Janet it isn't their fault but it's either laugh about
it or stress out big time!! Am only just covering costs with freight taking
huge bites out of any income ...... oh woooooe!:))
Steph
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM on tue 23 dec 03
Every time im around college or high school people and they're wondering how
there going to make it as a potter i tell them about most PAID fire depts.. My
job was 9 days a month, every third day... Great benefits also... It was a 24
and 48 off
Getting over yucky stuff happens quickly.. Mostly we went to cars wrecks and
we all were EMT,s and paramedics.. Some of the guys i worked with became
nurses also.. Good money working for a Agency...
Some times you get to go to fires,, i do like fire... Its a great job ,, also
you get to haul butt in big fire trucks,,
start applying NOW,,, there is probably a long waiting line,, It took me 3
yrs to get on,,you also need to be able to run ect,, if your a smoker , quit
Gives your plenty of time for pottery , sailing ,, and for me i grew exotic
plants
Email for details
Mark ashpots@aol.com
www.lookoutmountainpottery.com
Bruce Freund on tue 23 dec 03
Hi Andy,
Your subject in your email "Young Potter needs advise" was answered by a
response that said:
" Other people may have suggestions, but my
own opinion is that no available books or videos could possibly be as
valuable as the Clayart discussion list at this time in your career.
I thought about this response and I must tell you that in my humble opinion
this was a very accurate statement. It was also made to you by a very
knowledgeable person in the ceramic field. The advise he gave you in that
email could not be found in any book. I must also add that I would
absolutely agree with everything that he told you.
Best of Luck,
bruce freund
Arnold Howard on tue 23 dec 03
From:
> Currently I'm facing the eternal delema that I'm sure every "clay-type"
> must face. Can I make a living...should I try to make a living...will I be
> able to feed my family on a living...as a potter?
> Andy Casto
> Troy, Ohio
Among some of the hundreds of potters I've met:
One had back problems and had just undergone surgery. I asked him how he
hurt his back, and he said, "From 25 years making pots." It was the lateral
motion from working at a wheel, he explained. He added that after that many
years, his income averaged $12 an hour.
At a glass show in Nashville, I met a woman who said she used to be a potter
with her son. But she left pottery and was turning to glass fusing. The
reason she left pottery was that it was too much work. It damaged her back
and left her exhausted. "I was so busy that even when I was in the hospital
with back problems, I mixed glazes in bed."
But another potter at NCECA told me he made a very good living. He made his
own tools, built his own shop, and fired pots in a gas kiln. He sold his
pots by the trailer-full. He would drive to various stores, and the owners
would make him an offer for the entire batch of pots.
So I think the answer to Andy's question is that yes, you can make a living
at pottery. But you have to be very good at running a business, and you have
to be an expert at marketing.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
arnoldhoward@att.net
Krista Peterson on tue 23 dec 03
Hi Andrew,
If you've been reading for a while maybe you have read my posts about the s=
ame subject. I am in the same position except I'm missing the help with hou=
sehold expenses. If you look at our decision to be potters rationally, it's=
insanity. So I've come to the conclusion that rationality has nothing to d=
o with it. I think we have to approach it like The Fool in the Tarot. He is=
looking straight ahead with a smile on his face. A tiger is biting his leg=
but he doesn't seem to notice. It is fear. I am trying to ignore fear as b=
est I can. Although it takes hold sometimes and that's usually when I over =
analyze my situation. The great thing about clay is that the people involve=
d in it are extraordinarily supportive. I don't think any other medium can =
boast that kind of community. I know painters and they are always bickering=
amoungst themselves and worry about who is plagerizing their work. They se=
em to love drama. That is why I became a ceramic artist and not a painter. =
I could have done anything but when I attended a Don Reitz workshop I felt =
like I'd found my family. I think if you quit, you'll find you can't. Belie=
ve me, I tried. I became so frustrated with the struggles I went back to sc=
hool to become an engineer. And though I did alright with all that math, I =
did not like the people(except my teachers, there was a couple of pretty wo=
nderful teachers and I swear they could be potters). I didn't feel comforta=
ble around them and they did not understand me. When I speak with other pot=
ters they understand what I am saying. So even though my situation looks ki=
nd of bleak right now, I just come to the same conclusion, "what the hell e=
lse am I going to do?!" Right now, I rent a small space in another ceramic =
artists studio. She has been incredibly generous and even though I can't re=
ally afford to be doing ceramics right now, I am anyways. My debt is growin=
g right now and I do not see the day when I can start chipping away at it, =
but, what the hell else am I gonna do?! I figure, it's just money and they =
can't kill me or even throw me in jail for being in debt. (although I would=
n't put anything past this Administration) So I'll go without a haircut so =
I can get some clay and I'll wear my clothes until they're falling off my b=
ack so I can get some glaze materials. And that's how it is right now and I=
have to keep reminding myself that things change and I won't always be lik=
e this. But I have to run now to my dumb ass day job, but all day long I wi=
ll be thinking of ways in which I can do what I should be doing and hope th=
at I will get there soon. What the hell else am I gonna do?!
Take care and good luck to the both of us
Krista Peterson
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew_M_Casto@PROGRESSIVE.COM
Sent: Dec 22, 2003 2:50 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Young potter needs advice
Hi folks - I'm new to writing in the list here, but I've been a reader for
some time.
Currently I'm facing the eternal delema that I'm sure every "clay-type"
must face. Can I make a living...should I try to make a living...will I be
able to feed my family on a living...as a potter?
I know the routine answer - if you can stand lots of work, if you really
love it, if you can work yourself dead every day and handle being broke for
the 1st 10 years, etc...then go for it. OK, but seriously...
What I know is that a lot of folks do it, and some make a decent stab at
it. I also know that I have a fairly hard time doing anythingelse everyday.
No I'm not nieve about the workload or the commitment needed - what I know
is that pots make me happy, and I'm frustrated that I'm not living the life
I know I could be. Like everyone else though, I have real world
expectations to meet too, like house payments a wife, expenses, etc,
My question is this...how does one take the plunge - how do you make that
call that you're going give up the 9-5 job and all the benefits that come
with it. And if you do it, how do you make it work?
Any resources (books, videos, etc) folks could recommend would be great.
Maybe I'm just looking for a word of encouragement from someone who's been
there - I don't know. I do know that I spend my days at a mind numbing day
job, and have pictures of pots all over my cubicle...could anything be
worse???? Ha - surely it could...I just want to live to my fullest
potential, and wonder if anyone else has found themselves in this spot
before.
Thanks so much-
Andy Casto
Troy, Ohio
___________________________________________________________________________=
___
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.=
com.
Lee Love on tue 23 dec 03
Probably, the most helpful item for "transition" is a spouse/partner with
a full-time job.
--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan
http://Mashiko.org
Web Log (click on recent date):
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/calendar
Lois Ruben Aronow on tue 23 dec 03
Goodness - - do we have to go through this "woe is me I could make
more at mcdonalds" rant again?! It is not exclusive to pottery, so
let's stop feeling sorry for ourselves, folks. This whole thing is
getting tiresome.=20
This is true is most professions. For every Nicole Kidman, there are
thousands of anonymous girls posing in local catalogs and waiting
tables for $2 an hour waiting for a big break. For every John Currin
there are a thousand anonymous people stretching canvases and waiting
tables, trying to get into a gallery. For every Donald Trump there
are millions of local realtors living paycheck to paycheck.=20
If you want to be a potter as your profession, do it because you love
it. Because you can't imagine yourself doing anything else. Because
you love to make work. Because you dream about it. Because of the
sense of wonderment you get every time you open a kiln. Because it
is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, what you really are.
Decide what YOUR standard of living is. What YOU require materially
to make you happy. If you need a big house and loads of stuff to be
happy, then find some other career. =20
Take the time to acquire the knowledge of what YOUR work is. Who it
appeals to. Make mistakes. Keep trying. Practice good posture when
throwing, so to protect your back. Exercise to keep your body and
mind strong. Injuries aren't unique to potters - I know chefs and
police and teachers, you name it, who get injured from years on the
job.
I know loads of potters who have a decent standard of living, even
here in NYC. No one is rich, but no one is standing on line at the
soup kitchen either. =20
To get respect, you have to give it to yourself first. Be confident,
love your work, treat yourself well, and other will follow suit.
************
Lois Ruben Aronow
www.loisaronow.com
Modern Porcelain and Tableware
logan johnson on tue 23 dec 03
Hi Mark,
Just one question. What's the most fun? "Hauling butt in the big trucks" or getting to blow the horn & siren??? HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU & YOURS!!!
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM wrote:
Every time im around college or high school people and they're wondering how
there going to make it as a potter i tell them about most PAID fire depts.. My
job was 9 days a month, every third day... Great benefits also... It was a 24
and 48 off
Getting over yucky stuff happens quickly.. Mostly we went to cars wrecks and
we all were EMT,s and paramedics.. Some of the guys i worked with became
nurses also.. Good money working for a Agency...
Some times you get to go to fires,, i do like fire... Its a great job ,, also
you get to haul butt in big fire trucks,,
start applying NOW,,, there is probably a long waiting line,, It took me 3
yrs to get on,,you also need to be able to run ect,, if your a smoker , quit
Gives your plenty of time for pottery , sailing ,, and for me i grew exotic
plants
Email for details
Mark ashpots@aol.com
www.lookoutmountainpottery.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Logan Johnson
Audeo Studios
"Carpe Argillam!!"
---------------------------------
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logan johnson on tue 23 dec 03
Hi Andy!
All I can say is AMEN BROTHER to the post Bruce made. not only will you learn but, It's WAY too much fun just to lurk on the RARE days (MAYBE one or two a year) you don't see any posts you can learn somthing from. I haven't had one of those days yet but then I haven't been on clayart for a full year. I mean to say that those rare days MIGHT happen because most of the folks on clayart are only human. The ones that are more than human (in my very humble opinion) are the ones who help you out of the current jam your in . ;o} L.O.L!
Bruce Freund wrote:
Hi Andy,
Your subject in your email "Young Potter needs advise" was answered by a
response that said:
" Other people may have suggestions, but my
own opinion is that no available books or videos could possibly be as
valuable as the Clayart discussion list at this time in your career.
I thought about this response and I must tell you that in my humble opinion
this was a very accurate statement. It was also made to you by a very
knowledgeable person in the ceramic field. The advise he gave you in that
email could not be found in any book. I must also add that I would
absolutely agree with everything that he told you.
Best of Luck,
bruce freund
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Logan Johnson
Audeo Studios
"Carpe Argillam!!"
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square
logan johnson on tue 23 dec 03
Hi Andy,
My decision to" go for it on my own" was a two part decision. The root of the whole thing was after 5-ish yrs. (1/2 as a student & !/2 as studio tech.) A personality conflict. The boss/teacher & I got on each others nerves to the point that it was a race to see if I got canned before I could save up enough cash to buy a pug mill. It ended up in a tie.(pretty much) I got a letter over the school break saying " due to Programic Changes..." ect.ect.ect . I could not belive my luck. Now I didn't have to go thru the giving notice & spending the last two weeks getting attitude. Basicly I was SOOOOOO ready to go out on my own but, having the nice steady paycheck not to mention the pug mill kept me there. I just needed the kick in the butt to get out of my nice "safe" comfort zone.
Now I'll NEVER go back! Clay Gods willing. Did I mention my hubby was laid off from Boeing at the same time? Sometimes you just have to bite the bullit & GO FOR IT!!!
TONS OF LUCK!!!!!!
Logan Johnson
Audeo Studios
"Carpe Argillam!!"
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square
lela martens on tue 23 dec 03
Hi Andrew,
I always like this question cause it`s one I know for sure I have a good
answer to.
Get your hands on `Stayin` Alive` Survival Tactics for the Visual
Artist` by Robin Hopper. It has it all ,from the legal angle to the camera
angle with contributions from people who did exactly what you are thinking
about.
Good Luck, from Lela
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Vince Pitelka on wed 24 dec 03
> My question is this...how does one take the plunge - how do you make that
> call that you're going give up the 9-5 job and all the benefits that come
> with it. And if you do it, how do you make it work?
Dear Andy -
It sounds to me like you have answered most of your own questions already.
I can certainly understand your trepidation. That also speaks in your
favor. Rashness in such life-changes is not wise. But if this is what you
love, if you make good pots, and if you are willing to work hard, then you
will be one of the successful ones. If there are not yet kids in the
picture, then now is the time to make the change. There are plenty of
potters out there who have raised families on potter's wages, but it is
harder to make the transition if there is already a family to support. But
even then, if you are determined and committed, you will be successful.
Fresh out of undergrad school I had neither the maturity nor the confidence
to become a full-time potter, and so I went to work as a mechanic and welder
for the City of Arcata in Northern California. It was a good job, with full
benifits, but then I was also making pots on the side. Over a period of
years, I built a nice studio and equipped it with good fixtures and
equipment. Eventually it just got to a point where I couldn't NOT be a full
time potter. It sounds to me like you are approaching the same point in
your life.
You ask about books or videos. Other people may have suggestions, but my
own opinion is that no available books or videos could possibly be as
valuable as the Clayart discussion list at this time in your career. The
cummulative practical knowledge and experience of the list membership is
more valuable than all the books and videos out there. When you need help
or advice, ask us. We'll come through.
Make this decision wisely. If you decide you are ready, go for it. Setting
up a studio is expensive, and it may be worth it to stick with another job
just long enough to get your studio going. That will make a huge
difference. If you already have a good studio, then your only concern is
having some funds to support you at least partially while you get your
marketing up and running. If you have already worked on building a customer
base, then the transition will happen quickly.
I wish you the best of luck, and I look forward to hearing about how things
go at this incredibly exciting time in your life -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
karen gringhuis on thu 25 dec 03
Andy -
You've already gotten lots of good advice. But I'll
add mine anyway.
If you're in a day job situation complete with full
benefits, I suggest you do some serious numbers
crunching before bailing out to support yourself from
your work. How much will you pay to buy health
insurance on your own? To maintain a 401K, how much
income must you gross? Consulting a financial planner
even at a young age is a great idea REGARDLESS of your
decision.
(My sister bailed out of a fully tenured faculty
position to start her own consulting business. Her
gross shrinks with the speed of light when the above
is covered. It's not a pretty sight.)
And ask some very tough qns. starting with "is your
work GOOD enough?" How many pots will you have to
sell at what average price and markup? Where and how
do you plan to sell them? How many days work will this
represent? A prof once workde this out for me and it
was something like a 36 hr. day in an 8 day week!
What, if anything, will happen to the quality of your
work to meet a production schedule?
How much money do you need in a war chest to allow you
to work how long until you get some money coming in?
This is assuming you already have a complete studio
set up and ready to roll.
Particularly with regard to art fairs, if you don't
understand the concept of cost accounting, have your
accountant or tax preparer walk you thru it. As a
potential small business person, you will need one or
the other. And make no mistake, you will indeed be
running a small business complete with siginificant
time absorbed by marketing your work.
In his essay in the "21st Century Ceramics" show
catalog,John Glick says yes it can be done. The BEST
advice I ever heard came from Dave Hendley in his Clay
Times article (find it on-line?) "marry well" - and
he's NOT kidding. Ask Hank Murrow whose devoted wife
Bev has taught (?) for many years i.e. has provided
the benefits for the family, plus significant income.
One last question - what are your alternatives? Are
there ways to be involved with clay other than
supporting oneself from ones work? When initially in
your situation, I first taught myself to photograph
pots thinking this would generate income. I never
pursued this intensely - primarily because, as Dave
says, I married very well.
Look at everything with a very rational mind. Keep up
the good work and good luck.
=====
Karen Gringhuis
KG Pottery
Box 607 Alfred NY 14802
__________________________________
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Barbara Kobler on fri 26 dec 03
Karen: That is one of the best articulated guidlines for making such a decision I've ever read. And the other advise from___ was it Tony, to marry well is good too.
35 years back I vowed I'd never return to the corporate world and would only do clay. As a single woman with no children I had no one else to worry about and spent many years struggling in NYC Greenwich village.
I waslucky and had a 2000 sq.ft. skylit store front and studio space on Hudson St. I supplemented my income in many ways. Being in the age of the hippie, love transformation and the like, in addition to a couple wheels and and kilns, I added a full darkroom, silversmithing equipment, a loom and 3 sewing machines. For a monthly fee of $25 an artist would get a key and could use any of the facilities. Hey that was a lot of money then.
But it was still hard to go it. I used to work at office jobs sometimes for at least 20 weeks so I'd qualify for unemployment. That gave me $75 a week for at least 26 weeks. No reprimands please. It was/is the biggest known secret for artists.
My work was really not very salable back then. City apartment dwellers were not interested in fountains or bas relief wall units. And it was boring making nothing but goblets, bowls and lamp shades that sold. So I developed my own marketing research consulting business to earn money to underwrite the clay business. (that's what I did before I touched clay) and continued eking out a sustenance for several years.
Finally I married a man with a steady job. Developed a catering business to underwrite the clay. It took 15 years to start getting commissions from decorators for the type of stuff I do. But no way would it ever support me well or enable me to raise a family.
I have a single female friend with a child in her late 40s who relies solely on her pottery. And she is a truly great traditional potter. Making perfectly formed pots and using a beautiful glaze palette she developed. She is just barely surviving. No insurance, no savings, no pension, no home of her own, not enough to always get her child what is needed, very high rent for not so good area and she works like a slave at low paying city parks clay program jobs, or odd jobs at more successful studios. And her work is really really great. Not nice. Not simply good, but great functional potter.
So, guys, see if you can ease into it. Keep your day job and throw yourself into your pottery nights and weekends. Take a 2-3week vacation and do absolutely nothing else. Take a few years to supplement your regualr income with your clay work income.
Be sure to marry someone who is understanding that your "hobby" is not really a hobby. Marry someone who won't mind carrying the burden of the income for the family while you establish your business.
That's my two cents.
Barbara Kobler http://www.claywoman.net
Jan L. Peterson on fri 26 dec 03
My husband was (is) an artist. He quit abruptly for some reason around the
age of seventeen, but his work is excellent. His father was too. My first
husband the same. So, when I sit down and paint, I don't get pouting, or attitude. I
paint ceramics, pots, whatever needs painting, or I want to. My husband now
makes things out of woodfor the yard, and others. His father and an uncle make
wishing wells, he makes little wheelbarrows. My ex-husband built a teepee out
in his back yard and does beadwork, although he is color blind. I've never
know him, completely color-blind and all, to clash his color schemes. I guess he
draws his own patterns, as well. But, the day I can get one of these guys to
sit down, draw, or paint something for a beautiful tole work, or to hang, will
be my finest day. I don't say anything, I don't want to nag them into doing
it. Not the best way to get the drawings or paintings I want.
My Mom was a writer, I am, too, essentially. My cousins are the ones with the
drawing and painting talent. One of them quit when she started. She did a
few; labored hard over them, and her sister did one with no effort, seemingly,
whatsoever, and replaced her picture at the bank her in our town. She quit
shortly afterwards as well.
Their talents all far exceed mine, and I'm the only one doing anything.
But, at least I have understanding and support. A person could do well in
this atmosphere of support and care. And, there are hardly any critics, unless
something is really off. When I want to buy more brushes or paint, no problem.
Sometimes, I get brushes for Christmas or just 'cause it looks like something I
need. Everyone should be so spoiled. Jan, the Alleycat.
Kathy Forer on fri 26 dec 03
On Dec 23, 2003, at 9:42 AM, Lee Love wrote:
> Probably, the most helpful item for "transition" is a spouse/partner
> with
> a full-time job.
Where can you get one of those, or are they all sold out?
;)
Krista Peterson on sat 27 dec 03
> Probably, the most helpful item for "transition" is a spouse/partner
> with
> a full-time job.
Where can you get one of those, or are they all sold out?
Try the engineering or architecture department of your local university. Those people seem to have an interest in pottery without getting themselves addicted to it. You'd be providing them with a way to live vicariously through your work and Hey! They could help you build your studio too! Although I haven't been able to get that tactic to work yet.
Facetiously yours
Krista Peterson
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathy Forer
Sent: Dec 26, 2003 7:40 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Young potter needs advice
On Dec 23, 2003, at 9:42 AM, Lee Love wrote:
;)
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LaurieJean gombar on sat 27 dec 03
Hi!
Well, I had a different strategy. I put an ad in the singles section of
the local paper. Chose wisely, and or dated wisely. A wonderful man
that works in computers started to pursue me, believing in me more than
I believe in myself at times... If it was not for him... 5 years later I
would not know where I would be... But we do have a wonderful house in a
tourist zone, with a pottery studio and storefront in the home.
LJ
"Try the engineering or architecture department of your local
university. Those people seem to have an interest in pottery without
getting themselves addicted to it. You'd be providing them with a way to
live vicariously through your work and Hey! They could help you build
your studio too! Although I haven't been able to get that tactic to work
yet."
Andrew_M_Casto@PROGRESSIVE.COM on wed 7 jan 04
Dear Clayarters -
It has been about 2 weeks since I wrote you all asking for advice on making
a life in pots (8000 posts ago I think!). I have refrained from replying
for a number of reasons, but mostly because I'm still basking in the joy of
all the emails I recieved - thank you all so much...For whatever reason
(lack of self confidence, discouragement, the usuals, etc.) I had almost
given up hope. Having had such an encouraging response, I've been able to
reconsider where I want to be, and what could really be possible if I set
my mind to it.
Some of you asked for details about my situation/personal life in your
responses, so I wanted to reply - Yes I'm married - My wife and I met in
the clay studio...She's a high school art teacher and is incredibly
supportive of me and the thought of being full time studio. No kids yet,
but somewhere down the road we hope to get there. We both have undergrad
ceramics degrees, and I've had an apprenticeship and an extra year of
post-undergrad work in school. We have everything we would need for a
studio set up - garage/studio, wheels, electric kilns, tables, shelves,
etc. - the only need would be to build a gas kiln, which I guess isn't
really a necessity, but would be our preferred firing method.
So yes, I do think we will go for it - eventually. The advice everyone gave
on having extra $ and a second job when starting was great - we're
thinking of me staying with my current job for a couple more years and
trying to bank a full year's salary for me, so that we would have a year to
learn to make some money off the business. We would still have benefits
from her job, and yes, we have supportive parents and friends who would buy
my pots and could also help to make the transition easier with
encouragement and support.
Again, it was great to get so many wonderful responses - From what I can
tell thus far, Vince's advice about this list has been right on target...
"You ask about books or videos. Other people may have suggestions, but my
own opinion is that no available books or videos could possibly be as
valuable as the Clayart discussion list at this time in your career. The
cummulative practical knowledge and experience of the list membership is
more valuable than all the books and videos out there. When you need help
or advice, ask us. We'll come through."
Wow.
Thanks again folks - You've sincerely helped me.
Andy Casto
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