Gail Heilmann on thu 18 aug 05
Peter Cunicelli wrote:
'When you said, "That also gave me liability coverage of
$500,000/occurrence at art fairs and theft coverage for studio contents,
canopy, and display pieces", does this mean your work is covered when
it's
on display and not in the studio?'
Peter,
I'm glad you asked. No, this insurance does not cover my work itself,
but only my equipment, shelving, etc. If I am sued due to my
negligence in my work, canopy, or display at art fairs
then I am covered to $500,000/occurrence.
You will need to acquire other insurance to cover your actual work.
Maybe someone else in Clayart can give you information on that.
I would check with your home owners insurance to be sure you are
covered for people coming into your studio on a 'Studio Tour'. If you
are not covered, I would ask if they would add on a 'small business
coverage' or find an agency that would cover customers coming into
your studio. Bottom line: my insurance covers liability at art
fairs, but
not customers into my studio. My agent specifically asked about that.
gail j. heilmann
in the black hills of south dakota
Gail Heilmann on thu 18 aug 05
After Leland Hall's studio fire, of which I am very sorry he had to
experience,
I was reminded again that 'it can happen to anyone'. So I decided to
check on
my own insurance. Our USAA insurance company said no they did not
cover my
studio if it had any kilns in it. I have three. USAA did give me an
estimate of
$1006/year through The Hartford Company. So I decided to comparison
shop. State Farm said they would insure the contents of my studio
(with the garage
building itself being covered with USAA because two-thirds of the
building is a garage) plus my canopy and display items covered for
$351/year. That also gave me liability coverage of
$500,000/occurrence at art fairs and theft coverage for studio
contents, canopy, and display pieces. Yes, indeed, I bought the
Farm!
Again, Leland, so sorry for your loss! Thanks for your willingness to
share the
experience because it has helped me.
gail j. heilmann
in the black hills of south dakota
Peter Cunicelli on thu 18 aug 05
Gail,
I'm participating in a group show in December. The place where I'm
exhibiting is requiring me to get insurance.
When you said, "That also gave me liability coverage of
$500,000/occurrence at art fairs and theft coverage for studio contents,
canopy, and display pieces", does this mean your work is covered when it's
on display and not in the studio?
I'm participating in an Philadelphia Open Studios Tour in October.
Perhaps I might want to be insured before people start walking through it
then.
My insurance agent had no clue what I was talking about.
Thanks for the info!
Peter (www.petercunicelli.com)
Leland Hall on fri 19 aug 05
I've decided to go ahead and speak on this issue, as painfull and
embarressing as it is. Obviously, it hits very close to home.
I wonder how many rural potters live in older homes. We do. Not only old,
but of questionable structural integrity. As in, no foundations of
concrete. Probably not a great lot, but few I suspect. Our place was
built back in the early eightys on pier blocks. A very poor type of
construction. Now in our case, the county will never allow this home to be
upgraded, added on to, or improved in any significant way. It was built
with no permits, but a law passed in 90 grandfathers it in so that is legal
for it to stand. I have asked at least 6 or 7 insurance companys for
homeowners insurance, always to no avail. No foundations. No insurance.
The studio sits on a slab that I poured, (it had a dirt floor when I bought
the place) but since the building was not "permitted", we were told it
could not be insured either.
Now heres the embarresing part. I was ignorant enough to not know that had
I asked to have at least the contents insured, I could have at least bought
that. I've since found that pretty much everybody knows that the contents
can be insured. Everybody but me. I think it's a little odd that no one
offered this information, but truth is, I didn't ask the right question.
I feel like an idiot to have had this loss with no insurance whatsoever.
Ignorance is not bliss.
Leland Hall
Before The Wheel
Gordon Ward on fri 19 aug 05
Leland,
You are very generous to offer your experiences and insights to us all.
It's not always easy. Many of us are now taking another serious look
at safety and insurance issues. We are all happy you were not injured.
Best,
Gordon
On Aug 19, 2005, at 6:36 AM, Leland Hall wrote:
> I didn't ask the right question.
David Hendley on fri 19 aug 05
Leland, please don't feel like an idiot for not having insurance and
then losing your studio.
You might as well feel just as bad for not having gone to the casino
and placing a big bet on Blackjack table #4 during the 12th deal
on August 15th.
Psychological issues aside, insurance is nothing but a gamble. If you
don't need it, you have done nothing but throw away your money.
If you do need it, you have "won" the jackpot (funny to speak of a
devastating loss in those terms, I know, but in a purely financial sense,
that's what it is).
My pottery shop is indeed one of those old country houses built on
blocks. Actually, it was built in 1936, and the foundation was big
flat rocks as footings, with short logs of rot-resistant wood as the
piers. I upgraded to real concrete blocks in the '80s.
In the 24 years I have owned it with no insurance coverage, I have
saved enough by not paying insurance premiums to rebuild it
should it suffer disaster. Of course this assumes that I saved and
invested the amount I would have spent on insurance through all
those years.
I know, it would have been better for you to have known your
options and make a rational decision, but buying insurance still
might not have been a great idea. See, once you have a "business"
everything changes. Your shop would need "commercial"
insurance, which translates into "expensive".
My pottery shop is classified as an "out building", with a maximum
value of $5000 on my homeowners insurance. Better than nothing,
of course, but not much. Still, I am making the informed rational
decision to not buy separate insurance for the shop. In a purely
economic sense, it is not a good buy. I hope I win the gamble.
David Hendley
I don't know nothin' but the blues, cobalt that is.
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
> I wonder how many rural potters live in older homes. We do. Not only
> old,
> but of questionable structural integrity. As in, no foundations of
> concrete. Probably not a great lot, but few I suspect. Our place was
> built back in the early eightys on pier blocks. A very poor type of
> construction. Now in our case, the county will never allow this home to
> be
> upgraded, added on to, or improved in any significant way. It was built
> with no permits, but a law passed in 90 grandfathers it in so that is
> legal
> for it to stand. I have asked at least 6 or 7 insurance companys for
> homeowners insurance, always to no avail. No foundations. No insurance.
>
> The studio sits on a slab that I poured, (it had a dirt floor when I
> bought
> the place) but since the building was not "permitted", we were told it
> could not be insured either.
>
> Now heres the embarresing part. I was ignorant enough to not know that
> had
> I asked to have at least the contents insured, I could have at least
> bought
> that. I've since found that pretty much everybody knows that the contents
> can be insured. Everybody but me. I think it's a little odd that no one
> offered this information, but truth is, I didn't ask the right question.
>
> I feel like an idiot to have had this loss with no insurance whatsoever.
> Ignorance is not bliss.
>
> Leland Hall
Mayssan Shora Farra on fri 19 aug 05
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:18:19 -0600, Gail Heilmann
wrote:
>Peter Cunicelli wrote:
>'When you said, "That also gave me liability coverage of
>$500,000/occurrence at art fairs and theft coverage for studio contents,
>canopy, and display pieces", does this mean your work is covered when
>it's
>on display and not in the studio?'
>
>Peter,
>I'm glad you asked. No, this insurance does not cover my work itself,
>but only my equipment, shelving, etc. If I am sued due to my
>negligence in my work, canopy, or display at art fairs
>then I am covered to $500,000/occurrence.
****
Hello Gail, John:
I have an insurance for all that plus cover my work but with a deductible
of $250. It also covers customers coming into my studio.
This insurance coverage was a new addition from The Hartfords(AARP) last
year it costs around $400 for me and it is an additon to our home
insurance with them ( oh the joys of being a senior).
Apparently they saw a need with a lot of seniors having home businesses
and started to offer that, So any seniors out there you might want to
check it out, their car coverage is very reasonable too.
Mayssan
http://www.clayvillepottery.com
Peter Cunicelli on fri 19 aug 05
Thanks Gail! I don't think my homeowners is applicable here because my
studio is not in my loft. It's in a building a few blocks from my place.
(www.915studios.com)
I will check with the guy who I turn my rent checks over to, to find out if
perhaps there's some liability insurance on their part.
My other issue is that I've been asked to have insurance for a group show
I'm in. That doesn't happen until December, so I have time. I've got to
figure out what to do about that.
Thanks for your help.
Peter
(www.petercunicelli.com)
Tom at Hutchtel.net on fri 19 aug 05
David, Sorry, but you are leading most of the readers of clayart into a
potentially very bad trap. Most of the readers do not live in rural
Texas...or rural Minnesota as we do. Most do not make their living from
clay as you do. Most do not have the multitude of skills that you do for
building and repairing.
If they lose the gamble you are suggesting they make, they not only lose
their hobby or avocation, they lose their home, or other building.
I hate to enrich the insurance companies as much as any body, and you
suggested that it must be a calculated gamble. We were lucky with a
fire...only lost part of things. I think we are all seeing what happened to
Leland and what he's going through with his fire. Had we had the fire we
did, without insurance, I'd be down at the McDonald's flipping burgers.
Would we have ultimately recovered from a $78,000 loss, and it only took out
the kiln, kiln shed and part of the studio...I don't know, but I doubt it.
It didn't touch the main part of the studio and the Gallery except for smoke
damage. If this had been in a garage attached to our house, the house would
have required major overhauling...something we're not financially prepared
to do.
Also, you state your building is valued at $5000. What about everything in
it? What about pots finished and unfinished that might be ruined? What
about loss of income while you rebuild? What about injury of someone while
on your premises?
I'm not crying wolf here. Perhaps we have paid every cent we got out of the
settlement in premiums over the years. Fine. That's a saving account we
didn't set up and didn't put money into, but it was there when we needed it.
Have you got the $5000 plus all the extras in the bank? You state this is
on your homeowners. Have you actually checked to see if you'd be covered if
the fire were caused by a business operation? Most policies specifically
exempt that. So your pottery building may be covered as long as the fire
comes from the house. It may not be if it's a business casualty. I don't
know...but the insurance companies do put the exclusion clauses.
Please. Most of the stories of the uninsured in the CERF newsletter are
disasters. The insured cases don't make it in since they aren't
disasters...more setbacks.
Leland, if I may be so bold as to paraphrase what he is saying, he could
have had some of his disaster covered if only he'd have asked the right
question...or had a good insurance agent. While the building didn't qualify
because of structure, contents would have. His point was, cover what you
can. And I would add, make sure that your hobby, avocation or business
won't invalidate your homeowners.
I guess I'm just not as big a gambler as you are, David.
Best of luck in the sweepstakes.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hendley"
Subject: Re: Studio insurance ~ Leland's fire
> Psychological issues aside, insurance is nothing but a gamble. If you
> don't need it, you have done nothing but throw away your money.
> If you do need it, you have "won" the jackpot (funny to speak of a
> devastating loss in those terms, I know, but in a purely financial sense,
> that's what it is).
>
> My pottery shop is indeed one of those old country houses built on
> In the 24 years I have owned it with no insurance coverage, I have
> saved enough by not paying insurance premiums to rebuild it
> should it suffer disaster. Of course this assumes that I saved and
> invested the amount I would have spent on insurance through all
> those years.
>
> I know, it would have been better for you to have known your
> options and make a rational decision, but buying insurance still
> might not have been a great idea. See, once you have a "business"
> everything changes. Your shop would need "commercial"
> insurance, which translates into "expensive".
>
> My pottery shop is classified as an "out building", with a maximum
> value of $5000 on my homeowners insurance. Better than nothing,
> of course, but not much. Still, I am making the informed rational
> decision to not buy separate insurance for the shop. In a purely
> economic sense, it is not a good buy. I hope I win the gamble.
Kathi LeSueur on sun 21 aug 05
Gail Heilmann wrote:
> <<<> covered for people coming into your studio on a 'Studio Tour'. If you
> are not covered, I would ask if they would add on a 'small business
> coverage' or find an agency that would cover customers coming into
> your studio. Bottom line: my insurance covers liability at art
> fairs, but
> not customers into my studio. My agent specifically asked about
> that.>>>>
For anyone looking for studio insurance I would suggest finding an
independent agent (one who does not work for the insurance company such
as Allstate, State Farm) who writes residential, automobile, and
commercial insurance. Often they can write you one policy that will
protect all of your property for all occassions for less that buying at
various companies.
kathi
>
>
>
| |
|
