pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 2 oct 06
Hi Robert,
About the only time I ever did not get burned on
consignments, was when I made digital images, and
printed them out, even several such images stapled
together for each item, and had the schmucks sign
and date them (my copys and theirs) acknowledgeing
receipt of each item AND what that item was to be
price-wise...
AND had them sign the terms I write up for how it
works...and how it does not matter if the item is
'stolen' or 'disappears' or gets damaged or
wrecked or drifts up into the Stratosphere, or any
other schtick, it is "The-Same" as a "Sale'...
Where...if not, things can and do slide sideways
for all kinds of 'reasons', not all of which are
chicanery per-se, but which end up no better than
if it were...
Otherwise, try talking with them, see if they have
any ethics...see if they even acknowledge the
'other' Pot...and keep it nice, calm,
'positive'...
If no satisfaciton forthcomes, if it were me, I'd
hook a Logging Chain to their building some night,
and to my Bumper, and yank a big chunk of it out
so their Roof falls in.
That or just break the schumcks nose or
something...
...either way, I myself have had enough of
schmuckdom's wiles.
And I am no great fan of consignment, either...
Too, try and find more together Gallerys to
represent your Work...and have signed-dated, and
with terms stapled to them, of images of the exact
Work..for 'them' and you to keep...and how long
the period of consignment is to be...before it is
either renewed for another round, or, you come and
get the items(s) back.
Good luck...
Phil
LasVegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Marquardt"
> I have to jump in because I am currently going
through a very negative experience.
>
> I have large pots at a local gallery. One was
recently sold for a very good price and I was to
be paid my percentage. when I talked on the phone
I was sure I knew which pot it was (as I have many
there)
>
> When I arrived, the pot I thought was sold was
missing! The gallery could not find it!
> The pot that was in the grouping, which was NOT
to be sold was sold!
>
> 1. what is my reimbursement? is it full price
WITHOUT comission? the pot was not sold it was
lost/stolen
> 2. the gallery does not carry insurance. They
cannot and will not file any claim or police
report.
> 3. what is the contract with
consignemnt...really? If I own the pot up to the
point of sale then I can expect a full
reimbursement...right?
Len Cockman on tue 3 oct 06
Robert:
That is the bummer about consignment. Lots of gray area until you get paid. Several years ago I had some pieces at a local gift shop on consignment. Someone broke several pieces of mine and I also noticed that my chip and dip servers were used as display props for beanie babies and a utensil container was used for a pen holder.
If a venue has the guts to call themselves a "gallery" they should be paying the artist wholesale and then it is up to them to move it. I am very aprehensive about gift shops posing as galleries. As a result I currently take functional things to a local farmers market.
Where are you from? If you live near a university/college town there has been a huge increase in farmers markets in the last half decade or so. They are a great environment to get to know the ecletic-intellectual crowd in the community and possibly other open doors for sales opportunities. People that buy their produce,etc. at these locales tend to appreciate hand crafted artwork. Although I predominantly take functional work I have had recent success with funky slab teapots as well as Raku and Salt Fired work.
all the more reason to finally get to that website I have been agonizing over for the last several years.
Len in South Bend....Go Buckeyes!
From: Robert Marquardt <rmarquardt4@COMCAST.NET>
Reply-To: Clayart <CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG>
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Galleries & liability.....help!
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 02:55:51 +0000
>I have to jump in because I am currently going through a very negative experience.
>
>I have large pots at a local gallery. One was recently sold for a very good price and I was to be paid my percentage. when I talked on the phone I was sure I knew which pot it was (as I have many there)
>
>When I arrived, the pot I thought was sold was missing! The gallery could not find it!
>The pot that was in the grouping, which was NOT to be sold was sold!
>
>1. what is my reimbursement? is it full price WITHOUT
comission? the pot was not sold it was lost/stolen
>2. the gallery does not carry insurance. They cannot and will not file any claim or police report.
>3. what is the contract with consignemnt...really? If I own the pot up to the point of sale then I can expect a full reimbursement...right?
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>From: William & Susan Schran User <wschran@COX.NET>
> > On 9/28/06 9:41 PM, "Craig Clark" <mudman@HAL-PC.ORG> wrote:
> >
> > > Also be certain that the contract includes the maximum number
> > > of days from the date of a sale to the day you will be paid. If the
> > > gallery or shop is on the up and up they will pay their vendors and
> > > consignment folk monthly for sales in that month, or shortly
thereafter.
> >
> > Having owned a gallery where we did wholesale purchasing and consignment, I
> > want to "ditto" everything that Craig wrote and add:
> >
> > When a gallery/retail shop holds your work for consignment sale, they are
> > holding it in trust. The work still belongs to you.
> >
> > It is the law that when work on consignment is sold, the seller must hold
> > your percentage in trust. Your percentage of the sale belongs to you and the
> > gallery may not use that money for anything else. But in the real world,
> > galleries are sometimes strapped for cash and use that money to pay for
> > their expenses and that's where they start down that slippery slope.
> >
> > Most often if something is stolen/damaged, you will be paid only the
> >
percentage that would be due as if it had been sold. The gallery probably
> > will have a deductible on their insurance. I know we had a fairly large
> > deductible and if something small on consignment was damaged, we would pay
> > out of pocket rather than filing a claim - which would increase premiums.
> >
> > It should be written in the contract exact dates when you will be paid for
> > sale of work. Usually it's the beginning of the month following the sale. At
> > the end of the month we would spend a few days (takes time doing it yourself
> > while running the business) going over income and expenses and writing out
> > checks to the artists.
> >
> >
> > -- William "Bill" Schran
> > Fredericksburg, Virginia
>
> wschran@cox.net
> > wschran@nvcc.edu
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live Spaces
Carole Fox on tue 3 oct 06
On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 02:55:51 +0000, Robert Marquardt
wrote:
>the pot I thought was sold was missing! The gallery could not find it!
>The pot that was in the grouping, which was NOT to be sold was sold!
>
>1. what is my reimbursement? is it full price WITHOUT comission? the pot
was not sold it was lost/stolen
Robert - it's not clear which reimbursement you are asking about - the one
for the missing pot, or the one for the NFS pot that was sold. If you
have a consignment agreement, regardless of whether it is written or was
oral, I would expect it covers the first instance (missing pot), and your
reimbursement is the same as if the pot had been sold. Price less
commission. When you agreed to the retailer's consignment terms, you
established the value of the pot at that rate.
The second instance (NFS pot sold) is different. If the pot was marked
NFS (it was, wasn't it?), you probably have a case for additional damages
unless your consignment agreement limits the gallery's liability. Not
knowing the price range of your work, I wouldn't care to guess whether it
would be worth the effort to pursue beyond negotiation with the seller.
I have found it to be helpful to put an inventory or stock number on
pieces. This number links to an inventory / price list. With the
numbers, there is no question as to which piece sold, and with the price
list, no question on price.
Carole Fox
Dayton, OH
Chris Campbell on tue 3 oct 06
You are asking excellent questions ... the only
problem is you should have asked them before
you left the pots with them ... not now.
However, since you are in this jam ...
here are the standard conventional terms that
most honest consignment galleries adhere to:
Terms
Typically 50/50.
Consignment.
The artist owns the work until it sells.
The gallery is responsible for the work
until it sells or is returned.
Time frame for display
Typically six months to one year.
Payment schedule.
Payment will be 30-45 days from date of sale.
Shipping.
Artist is responsible for getting the work safely
to the gallery.
Gallery is responsible for returning the work.
Return insured shipping is at Gallery expense.
Gallery is responsible for loss or damage of
work while in its possession.
Next time get a signed contract before
you leave a single piece of work with any gallery.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina - hope this works out for you!
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Fine Colored Porcelain since 1989
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH ...
See the movie and pass the word on.
Your grandchildren will thank you.
Robert Marquardt on tue 3 oct 06
I have to jump in because I am currently going through a very negative experience.
I have large pots at a local gallery. One was recently sold for a very good price and I was to be paid my percentage. when I talked on the phone I was sure I knew which pot it was (as I have many there)
When I arrived, the pot I thought was sold was missing! The gallery could not find it!
The pot that was in the grouping, which was NOT to be sold was sold!
1. what is my reimbursement? is it full price WITHOUT comission? the pot was not sold it was lost/stolen
2. the gallery does not carry insurance. They cannot and will not file any claim or police report.
3. what is the contract with consignemnt...really? If I own the pot up to the point of sale then I can expect a full reimbursement...right?
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: William & Susan Schran User
> On 9/28/06 9:41 PM, "Craig Clark" wrote:
>
> > Also be certain that the contract includes the maximum number
> > of days from the date of a sale to the day you will be paid. If the
> > gallery or shop is on the up and up they will pay their vendors and
> > consignment folk monthly for sales in that month, or shortly thereafter.
>
> Having owned a gallery where we did wholesale purchasing and consignment, I
> want to "ditto" everything that Craig wrote and add:
>
> When a gallery/retail shop holds your work for consignment sale, they are
> holding it in trust. The work still belongs to you.
>
> It is the law that when work on consignment is sold, the seller must hold
> your percentage in trust. Your percentage of the sale belongs to you and the
> gallery may not use that money for anything else. But in the real world,
> galleries are sometimes strapped for cash and use that money to pay for
> their expenses and that's where they start down that slippery slope.
>
> Most often if something is stolen/damaged, you will be paid only the
> percentage that would be due as if it had been sold. The gallery probably
> will have a deductible on their insurance. I know we had a fairly large
> deductible and if something small on consignment was damaged, we would pay
> out of pocket rather than filing a claim - which would increase premiums.
>
> It should be written in the contract exact dates when you will be paid for
> sale of work. Usually it's the beginning of the month following the sale. At
> the end of the month we would spend a few days (takes time doing it yourself
> while running the business) going over income and expenses and writing out
> checks to the artists.
>
>
> -- William "Bill" Schran
> Fredericksburg, Virginia
> wschran@cox.net
> wschran@nvcc.edu
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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